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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:31 am 
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Dub wrote:
I've said this before, but I keep touting it:

Going to failure every workout will eventually kill your nervous system and burn you out/stop your progress. Getting yourself to near-death condition doesn't mean you did a good workout. You have to work SMART. You can get great gains with much lower intensity and volume as well. I always quote this one piece of research: You get the same benefits by working to a near failure (1-3 reps left in the tank), as you would by working to a total failure. Without constantly overloading the CNS. So why would you always work to failure? There's a time and place for failure as well, but it's should be SMART.


not according to CT motherf****** Fletcher!

NSFW!



his other videos are awesome too


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 am 
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Caniv wrote:
should i do exactly as Jungledoc said? 3 every gym day, once 3 reps once 5 and once 10?
or can i start (at least for the first month) with 5 8 10? so i don't put to much pressure on my body and i do
want to make sure i learn the mechanics of all the exercises i do.. if im not mistaken some of the ones i chose
aren't very simple, Press, deadlift, they need to be done 100% right in order for me not to harm myself.


Here's my two cents. When you're doing full body workouts, you don't have to do a specific rep scheme that you use to every exercise. To build more muscle, you'd go best with varying volume (the amount of reps and sets). You could put emphasis on certain lifts for certain days. Hypertrophy is best served with some higher intensity, then with higher volume. So 5-15 reps is where you should aim more in my opinion. So having two higher intensity exercises per workout (with 5-6 reps per set, longer rest), then having other work on higher volume and lower rest (6-15 reps). Changing the heavier exercise every workout.

Or then you could do the thing Jungledoc said, but I'd prefer the rep range of 5 or 6, 8 and 10-12. This way you would maybe support your hypertrophic goals more. Deadlifts can be worked with lower volume, since they fatique the lower back quite fast. And that will make you more injury-prone.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:44 am 
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robertscott wrote:
Dub wrote:
I've said this before, but I keep touting it:

Going to failure every workout will eventually kill your nervous system and burn you out/stop your progress. Getting yourself to near-death condition doesn't mean you did a good workout. You have to work SMART. You can get great gains with much lower intensity and volume as well. I always quote this one piece of research: You get the same benefits by working to a near failure (1-3 reps left in the tank), as you would by working to a total failure. Without constantly overloading the CNS. So why would you always work to failure? There's a time and place for failure as well, but it's should be SMART.


not according to CT motherf****** Fletcher!

NSFW!



his other videos are awesome too

Okay fine, curling to motherf'n failure won't burn your CNS that badly. Try DL'ing to failure three times a week and come back un-injured and/or stronger. But I agree that the term overtraining is way too overused and pansied around on.

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Last edited by Dub on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:45 am 
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Dub wrote:
robertscott wrote:
Dub wrote:
I've said this before, but I keep touting it:

Going to failure every workout will eventually kill your nervous system and burn you out/stop your progress. Getting yourself to near-death condition doesn't mean you did a good workout. You have to work SMART. You can get great gains with much lower intensity and volume as well. I always quote this one piece of research: You get the same benefits by working to a near failure (1-3 reps left in the tank), as you would by working to a total failure. Without constantly overloading the CNS. So why would you always work to failure? There's a time and place for failure as well, but it's should be SMART.


not according to CT motherf****** Fletcher!

NSFW!



his other videos are awesome too

Okay fine, curling to motherf'n failure won't burn your CNS that badly. Try DL'ing to failure three times a week and come back un-injured. But I agree that the term overtraining is way too overused and pansied around on.


I just thought it was a cool video and was looking for an excuse to post it...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:13 pm 
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You probably noticed the list of programs in the stickies for this furum. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3817

There are several intermediate programs that work very well. Madcow's 5x5 and Westside for Skinny bastards are both on the list. Also popular are The Texas Method and Greyskull LP. I'm sure there are others. My point is that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Pick one and do it until it doesn't work. Tweak it as you need to so you can address specific weak points.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:54 pm 
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YES, you have to do everything EXACTLY as I said!

:)

Naw, that was just an example. Hopefully you will get the idea, and work the details out for yourself.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:32 am 
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Haha alright I think I get it now.. at least moss do than before!

But I gotta ask... as a new trainee, the weight I can lift will prolly chance rapidly, so how will I know what is the"right weight" when I go on my mod and light days and won't I waste a bunch of time sets and effort going too low in the weight and realizing is to low?

Is there's a method for this?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:58 am 
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You base your progression on whether or not you get all your prescribed reps in the previous workout. This is why keeping records is important. In a program like SS, you put the weight up by 5# or so the next workout if you get all your reps with good form. With Madcow or similar, you increase the weight weekly and base you weights off the previous week's workout.

http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/

There's a link to a spreadsheet there so you can put your last lifts into it and it will do the calculations for you.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:51 pm 
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alright well! first of all, again i appropriate all the help and advice.
i might be stubborn but i do want to try "my own thing" before i try the ready made 5X5 programs and such (worst case i waste 1-2 months and try the "sure thing")

but assuming my routine is:
Barbell Deadlift
Barbell Full Squat
Barbell Bench Press
Pullup
chest dip
Barbell military press
barbell push sit-up
Cable Straight Back Seated Row

that's 8! - if i do decide to split it into two 4-ex days(AB):
1) would it be effective if i only go 3 times a week? or will it only really shine with 4 times?
2) most importantly, which 4 should go together? i mean, it makes sense to me that if i dived this into A and B, theres "right" group... what is it?

ty


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:05 pm 
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I would split it up like:

A
Barbell Deadlift
Another leg exercise, preferably something quad dominant and unilateral like lunges
Barbell military press
Pullup
chest dip

B
Barbell Full Squat
Another leg exercise, something hamstring dominant. Step ups, leg curls, Romanian deadlifts, whatever
Barbell Bench Press
Cable Straight Back Seated Row
Another upper back move. Face pulls or something like that

Do them as many times a week as you like, 3 or 4 times is fine. Take at least one day off between workouts.

I've added the extra leg exercises because one leg exercise in a session is lame, and I've added another upper back exercise to workout B so that the amount of pushing you do balances out with the amount of pulling. That'll help keep your shoulders healthy.

done.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:12 am 
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wow robertscott thanks alot!
that is very tempting to me, only 5 exercises per workout seems alot "easier" on the mind than "i need enough energy to go to an 8 drill workout" rather than just 5". seems alot nicer on the body to let it recoup also - about what u said, 1 day between workouts, i thought the whole point of AB is that i can workout everyday and still let my body rest... no?

also notices u took out the Barbell Push Sit-up, thought of doing that one instead of crunches, it seems very productive. why remove it? (leaves no stomach work)

and offc ill add the exercises u said =)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:25 am 
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Caniv wrote:
... i thought the whole point of AB is that i can workout everyday and still let my body rest... no?


Yes... but you can do a split-workout 3x/week (week 1: ABA; week 2: BAB and so on; for example on Mon, Wed, Fri) or 4x/week (ABxABxx; x = day off) or think of other variations...

Quote:
also notices u took out the Barbell Push Sit-up, thought of doing that one instead of crunches, it seems very productive. why remove it? (leaves no stomach work)...


Somehow I knew that question would come up... :wink: (remember, you work your core in every exercise in order to stabilize your body; yes, you can do more, but you have got to ask yourself or experience how much time you have each training-session... starting to workout, will certainly answer many questions you may have "in theory"...)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:27 am 
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Caniv wrote:
wow robertscott thanks alot!
that is very tempting to me, only 5 exercises per workout seems alot "easier" on the mind than "i need enough energy to go to an 8 drill workout" rather than just 5". seems alot nicer on the body to let it recoup also - about what u said, 1 day between workouts, i thought the whole point of AB is that i can workout everyday and still let my body rest... no?

also notices u took out the Barbell Push Sit-up, thought of doing that one instead of crunches, it seems very productive. why remove it? (leaves no stomach work)

and offc ill add the exercises u said =)


you won't be able to do the workouts as an AB format because there is a lot of overlap between the exercises. You won't enjoy squatting the day after deadlifting, and neither will your lower back, that's why i recommended taking at least one day off between workouts.

If you are desperate to train as much as possible you could just do

A
off
B
off
A
off
B
off
A
off
B
off

and so on until infinity.

As for the abs work, yeah add some barbell crunches or whatever. I don't actually think it's all that necessary but if you want to do it then go ahead.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:31 am 
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well rather than pay you i cant think of a way to thank you.

thanks you for checking every time and answering all my million question.

and also to everyone else that answered, really appropriate it


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:54 am 
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Caniv wrote:
well rather than pay you i cant think of a way to thank you.

thanks you for checking every time and answering all my million question.

and also to everyone else that answered, really appropriate it


you can pay me if you like :)


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