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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:54 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
...You say you do dips and upright rows because overhead doesn't work. I was wondering what the issue is with working overhead. I have trouble with overhead lifts, mostly because of shoulder mobility issues.


O. k. ... that was a misunderstanding. (I didn`t say "overhead doesn`t work", I said "they (Upright Row and Dips) don`t work overhead".)

At the moment (as I wrote in the first post) I do Pull-downs, Military Press, Upright Row and Dips (among the other exercises). And I said (at least I meant to say) I included the latter, because these vertical movements work different than the first ones (I thought so at least) to cover all the movements you recommended.

So the only difference is, I believed to need 8 exercises to train all the movements, whereas you wrote that six are enough... Do you recommend only six, because they are enough? Or because these are the most important to start with, for a beginner? (To start building up a working capacity.)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:28 am 
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There are potential shoulder issues with both upright rows and with dips.

In the case of the dips, they duplicate the elbow extension of both bench and overhead press as well as the shoulder adduction of chinups.

Upright rows involved the elbow flexion like chinups or pullups, and shoulder abduction of the presses, though they can be varied (underhand grip) so that the shoulder moves in extension, like in a chinup. So you can use them for some variety, but I don't think either is essential.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:41 am 
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Thank you very much! :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Upright Rows are kind of an odd duck exercise. They're technically a multi-joint movement (shoulders and elbows), but you're probably better off treating like an isolation exercise if you do them at all (higher reps and relatively light weight).

Alternately you could try something like High Pulls (a true compound lift), which look like an Upright Row, but feel very different and involve a lot more muscle groups. Or you could just go with Dumbbell Laterals if you just want to build your side delts for aesthetic reasons.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
Upright Rows are kind of an odd duck exercise. They're technically a multi-joint movement (shoulders and elbows), but you're probably better off treating like an isolation exercise if you do them at all (higher reps and relatively light weight).

Alternately you could try something like High Pulls (a true compound lift), which look like an Upright Row, but feel very different and involve a lot more muscle groups. Or you could just go with Dumbbell Laterals if you just want to build your side delts for aesthetic reasons.


Thanks, Matt Z.

I didn`t know what High Pulls are... Now I know... Would be kind of "the same" explosive movement like the Power Cleans that are included in the "Starting Strength"-Programme...

The more I think about (all of) your suggestions and read even more on that matter... about different workouts suggested for beginners (more simple wholebody-workouts or "Starting Strength" or variations of that programme), the more I begin to like the idea to try a simple yet balanced workout...

... I will keep you informed on how I develop my workout over the next weeks...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:41 am 
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Crow wrote:
... I will keep you informed on how I develop my workout over the next weeks...


As I promised... I started the following workout 2x/week, worksets 3x8. I started really low on weight to concentrate on proper form and tried to increase weight each session (5kg on Deadlift and Squat, 2,5kg on the others, except Pull Down (3kg)).

Exercise, starting weight, actual weight:

Squats, 40, 70
Deadlifts 30, 55
Bench Press, 20, 35
Bent-over Row, 20, 35
Press, 20, 32,5
Pull Down, 45, 51

As you can probably see, I wasn`t able to increase weight on every session. I stuck with the Pull Down first at 54kg (loosing proper form; and because there is no pad to put my thighs under, it nearly lifts me up). I repeated the 55kg with deadlifts to make sure, my back doesn`t round. And I wasn`t able to do 3x8 with the Press at 32,5kg the last two sessions.

I probably won`t be able to train 2x/week the next two weeks (due to vacations), so perhaps a little setback (or less reps/sets) after that isn`t a bad idea...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:14 am 
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Good job! Don't worry too much about interruptions. When you get back see if you can match the last workout. If you miss a rep or so, don't worry, just carry on next time.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:50 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Good job! Don't worry too much about interruptions. When you get back see if you can match the last workout. If you miss a rep or so, don't worry, just carry on next time.


Thanks for the encouragement... It worked... I have to admit that I tried only 3x5, but I matched my last workout and even was able to put on more weight on some exercises.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:23 am 
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Time for a little update and a question...

The workouts are on Mon. and Wed. (Volleyball on Thur.):
Squats, 3x5, 85kg
Press, 3x5, 40kg
Deadlifts, 1x5, 85kg
Bench Press, 3x5, 55kg
Bent-over Row, 3x5, 55kg
Lat Pull Down, 5x5, 54kg (3x Grip like a Pull up, 2x Grip like a Chin up)

The question is about the grip when doing Deadlifts... Until now I used the overhand grip, but it starts getting unsecure... So the best thing would be to use the overhand grip on warm-up sets and start with an alternate grip on the work set?

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:28 am 
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Crow wrote:
The question is about the grip when doing Deadlifts... Until now I used the overhand grip, but it starts getting unsecure... So the best thing would be to use the overhand grip on warm-up sets and start with an alternate grip on the work set?

Yeah. Use the double overhand until it starts to break (warm-up), then change to mixed or hook. It'll strengthen your grip but still give you a strong deadlift.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:59 am 
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I will have a few days off next week and when starting "again" I think about adding the Friday to my training days whenever possible.

As you have read, at the moment it is a whole-body workout (see above) on Monday and Wednesday and Volleyball on Thursday... Training on Friday will be pretty stressfull (and perhaps too much?) without a day rest. What would be your suggestion for me?

I thought about the following possibilities:

a) Splitting the workouts like in SL 5x5 (for example) to train AxBVAxx, BxAVBxx (V = Volleyball)
Pro: perhaps a little less stressfull on Mon. and Wed. to allow Fri. as a full workout day.
Con: I won`t probably be able to train every Fri. so the missing day will be worse without doing the full workout on Mon. and Wed. (The same for a missed Mon. or Wed..)

b) Keeping the workouts on Mon. and Wed. and doing a split of the workout alternating push or pull exercises on Fri.
Pro: Missing a Friday won`t have a big impact (?) on the training week and progress.
Con: perhaps too stressfull? (could result in deadlift (Wed.) volleyball (thur.) deadlift (Fri.) for example)

c) Keeping the workouts on Mon. and Wed. and doing some other exercises (or some of the mainlifts) in a lower rep-range (3x10) to support the mainlifts or my weaker lifts
Pro: not a big problem, when I miss a Fri.? The lower rep-range will stress the body a different way?
Con: I don`t know? Too complicated? ;)

What do you think would be the best choice for me "as a next step" in my training?


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:59 pm 
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without going back thru the entire thread for clarity,
a few points stick to make and point out

1. SL 5x% is not a split. Its Full Body 3x week. Just some swap outs of differnt exercises (again, w/o re-reading it implies you currently do maybe 6 movements. And SL might be lower volume)

2. How about Saturday ? instead of Friday.

3. JUST TRY IT. Try that SL, or try something else, or ... I mean, there is nothing outlandish about your ideas. How can we know if it will be too much.


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:13 am 
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I agree with the "just try it" approach. It's not like something bad will sneak up on you unnoticed. The VB on Thurs is pretty different than lifting, so there may not be any problem at all. If you are starting to get too fatigued, then back off on something on Wednesday or Friday. As long as you are getting enough sleep and enough food, I think you'll probably be able to do quite a bit with Friday.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:50 am 
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O. k. ... when all 3 suggestions/ideas would be good choices in my situation, I will just think about it a few days and then try one of them and see how it develops...

Thanks, Oscar and Jungledoc.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:55 am 
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Just to let you know, I will try the following alternating 3x/week:

A: Squats 3x5, Bench Press 3x5, Pendlay Row 3x5; Dips (maschine) 3x10, Face Pulls 3x10, Abs
B: Deadlifts 1x5, Press 3x5, Pull down (supinated grip) 3x5; Pull down (pronated grip) 3x10, DB Row 3x10, Abs


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