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 Post subject: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:17 pm 
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I've been doing Wendler's 5/3/1 for about 10 months now. For awhile, doing the strict routine. As of lately, I've ben running into some issues.

I'm only able to go to the gym twice a week. Training a lift every 14 days hasn't been great. I didn't start out wanting to do this, but life gets in the way. My 1-1/2 year old, my job, music, wife wanting to also go to the gym, etc etc. Was going Mon/Wed/Fri..Friday would come and I'd go and do the bare minimum(just the 5/3/1) and it would usually never be a great lift day. Most Fridays i'd be so shot from the week that I'd end up just going home. So I switched to doing Tue/Thu/Sat. While that was doing great, the weekends are packed with quality time with the little one. Plus all the "other stuff" I can't do during the week. So 3 days a week just doesn't happen. It's all well and good till I actually get to that 3rd day.

That all being said, I've been debating "the other way" of 5/3/1 twice a week...training two big movements a day. Like I said above, training a lift every 14 days isn't optimal. I like the idea of two a day, but I i'd like to know if anyone else has tried this and done well? Also, how to train the accessories...do the big lifts first, then have at it with whatever is left in the tank...try to get through at least one movement for each lift and then be done, or breakdown the parts. I was also thinking about super setting the accessories....


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:03 am 
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i'm using this version of 5/3/1. but i'm only in the 3rd cycle and i'm a novice. i use it like that:

monday:
squat 5/3/1
bench press 5/3/1
squats or step ups 5x10
pull ups 5x10

wednesday:
deadlift 5/3/1
military press 5/3/1
pendlay rows or kroc rows 5x10
dips 5x10

til now i could improve everything except of squats and military press.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:10 am 
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Wendler recently posted an article at t-nation about the rest-pause system.
It is a 2 day a week program.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/531_and_rest_pause_a_six_week_challenge


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:23 am 
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pretty sure there's a 2 day template online somewhere

I'm not talking about the one wouter posted


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:30 am 
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He has 2 options in his newest book (I don't know if it's allowed to post it here, but anyway)

Option 1

Monday
Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Assistance: chins 3x10, back raises 3x15, DB bench 3x10, rear lateral 3x20

Wednesday/Tuesday
DL 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance: DB rows 3x10, dips 3x10-15, GM 3x10, curls 3x10

For assistance work: pick 1-2 exercises per main lift.

Option 2
This is basically what you've been doing.

Also: no deload weeks when training twice a week.


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:51 am 
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Wouter wrote:
He has 2 options in his newest book (I don't know if it's allowed to post it here, but anyway)

Option 1

Monday
Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Assistance: chins 3x10, back raises 3x15, DB bench 3x10, rear lateral 3x20

Wednesday/Tuesday
DL 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Assistance: DB rows 3x10, dips 3x10-15, GM 3x10, curls 3x10

For assistance work: pick 1-2 exercises per main lift.


that's the one I meant. I think it's cool to post it as I've definitely seen that before and I don't have the most recent edition of his book


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:07 am 
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@wouter:

are the assistance exercises you posted are taken from the book?

i thought i have the newest version of the book and there he only recommends 1-2 assistance exercises, but doesn't name specific ones.

looks like wendler also started to recommend 3x10 and not 5x10 anymore?

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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:56 am 
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Yep, it's taken directly from the newest book.
He does say 1-2 assistance exercises, but it's per main lift (see previous post).


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:40 pm 
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yeah, i know. i meant in my version of the book are no specific assistance exercises listed for the two day method.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:30 pm 
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ephs wrote:
yeah, i know. i meant in my version of the book are no specific assistance exercises listed for the two day method.
This.

robertscott wrote:
pretty sure there's a 2 day template online somewhere

I'm not talking about the one wouter posted

yes, I've read the book that shows it, but it never references where to put the accessories.


Wouter wrote:
Wendler recently posted an article at t-nation about the rest-pause system.
It is a 2 day a week program.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/531_and_rest_pause_a_six_week_challenge

I like this a lot. I'm going to give this a whirl. It has everything I want, except shrugs. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:44 am 
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are you still training 5/3/1 twice a week, shawn? how does it work with the new 2 main exercises per day template?

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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Yes, I would have been completing cycle 4 but I got sick so my second day of 5/3/1 will continue next week.

I like it a lot! I've learned a few things.

1.) You need to space out the lifts. I've figured out that if I lift on Monday, and then on Wednesday, my legs are still sore from squats. So I pushed it back to Thursday and it makes a huge difference. It also allows me to kind of cycle my diet a little bit.

Monday: get in my 3 k calories and make sure I have a good carb load before going to the gym. With workout I estimate via Lose It that I hit 2600(or so) calories.

Tuesday: Protein up! Concentrate on getting in as much as I can with staying at or a little under 2600 calories. I can usually get 300+ grams of protein on these days.

Wednesday: Don't go nuts with eating but eat don't eat $h1t. Still try and keep my protein up but not as crazy as Tuesday.

Thursday: Repeat Monday.

Friday: Usually my cheat day, but I try to keep it real like on Tuesday.
Saturday/Sunday: Don't go nuts, but don't starve. Make sure I get in my water, protein and fats.

2.) I need to eat in order to make strength gains. I doubt I'm losing weight, but who knows. I refuse to step on the scale(weighed in 2 weeks ago at 309lbs) and i'm a little nervous to. I want to get to 275, but this is going to be really difficult while trying to get stronger and put on muscle. I think I really need to work on tightening things up in order to accomplish both goals.

3.) The second lift suffers a little bit as you aren't 100% fresh. Meh, It doesn't really bother me, but if you aren really in to BP and OHP, this might bum you out a bit. Me, I don't care. I hit my reps on those two exercises and continue to make slower progression. Squat and DL I always hit extra reps on the last set. OHP and BP< not so much.

Hit 8x385 on DL, estimated ORM 487lbs. Last time I tested max I hit 1x455
Hit 5x320 on squat, estimated ORM 373lbs. Last time I tested max I hit 1x355

I'd say that's progress! Going to finish out this cycle, do one more then deload and test maxes again. After that, either continue on this path maybe do a few weeks of hypertrophy based workouts before going on vacation, try and drop shed some pounds with more cardio and then re-load a few weeks and hit it hard again.


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:31 am 
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thx for sharing your experience. some good advice about diet in your post.

which assistance exercises are you doing? are you doing them 5x10 or 3x10?

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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Im following the rest-pase template links in the post above.

I do the accessories exactly how they recommend, but I usually add in 3 sets of db shrugs at the end of day 2 because I feel like I need it. I feel like this routine is working for me and I'm the strongest I've ever been. I'll tell you how it's working at the end of the year if I hit my goals.


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 Post subject: Re: 5/3/1 twice a week.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:06 pm 
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in the article wendler writes you should use rest-pause for the bench, press, chin up and the arm work. but why is there only data for rest-pause for bench and press in the tables of the article and just 1 set + warm up sets of the assistance work? how do you do it?

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