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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:47 pm 
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For those of you that don't tolerate whey, there have been few satisfactory alternatives...

...until now.

According to this article on ergo-log:

http://www.ergo-log.com/rice-protein-wo ... lders.html

the problem with rice protein is that although it has a good amino profile, it has a miserably low amount of leucine (the amino acid most responsible for activating the mTOR pathway, which activates protein synthesis).

There are two ways around this.

1 - Take a large enough serving of rice protein that the leucine amount increases to the point necessary for mTOR activation. This is the approach tested (and recommended) in the article. The researchers found that you need approximately 50g of rice protein for this to happen.

2 - Add leucine to the rice protein. 3g or so would be enough, although I'd probably add 5 just because I prefer the number 5. This would work if you didn't want to drink a mammoth serving of rice protein (it apparently tastes like satan's earthy butthole).

So there you go. I'd probably go with option number 2 because leucine is cheap as chips and your protein powder'll go further that way. The good news is that once you have the leucine taken care of (by utilising either approach above) the rice protein is every bit as good as whey.

This is great news for people like me who can't digest whey, and really it's good news for everybody considering the price of whey has been rising every year for a long time now, and looks set to continue to do so.

I should probably note that this is purely from a muscle-building perspective. I have never compared rice protein to whey in terms of health benefits beyond muscle building, nor do I particularly care to do so at this time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Have you tried pea protein?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Proper Knob wrote:
Have you tried pea protein?


I've never tried any non-dairy protein, but I'm planning on making the move to brown rice + leucine combo.

Don't really know anything about pea protein. A quick spot o' googlin' reveals that it has a lower BV than rice, but whether or not there's much real-world significance in that I dunno.

Checking on myprotein.com, pea is considerably cheaper than the rice/leucine combo so there's that to consider.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:24 am 
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Be warned, it has a rather 'unique' taste which took me a while to get used to.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:23 am 
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Proper Knob wrote:
Be warned, it has a rather 'unique' taste which took me a while to get used to.


Is that due to the rice or the leucine?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:06 am 
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I think Phil was talking about pea protein sans leucine

I actually watched a Layne Norton blog today where he talked about adding leucine to protein powders. He's all up for it, apparently. I'm pretty sold on the idea.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:08 am 
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robertscott wrote:
I think Phil was talking about pea protein sans leucine

I actually watched a Layne Norton blog today where he talked about adding leucine to protein powders. He's all up for it, apparently. I'm pretty sold on the idea.


It makes a lot of sense. Leucine is the key amino acid for building muscle and everything else that matters.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:32 am 
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robertscott wrote:
I think Phil was talking about pea protein sans leucine

I actually watched a Layne Norton blog today where he talked about adding leucine to protein powders. He's all up for it, apparently. I'm pretty sold on the idea.

As is John Kiefer for one. I've been having the leucine+whey combo for months now. 5g of leucine post workout seems good

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:47 am 
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Dub wrote:
robertscott wrote:
I think Phil was talking about pea protein sans leucine

I actually watched a Layne Norton blog today where he talked about adding leucine to protein powders. He's all up for it, apparently. I'm pretty sold on the idea.

As is John Kiefer for one. I've been having the leucine+whey combo for months now. 5g of leucine post workout seems good


hmmm I dunno about whey + leucine to be honest.

The reason for adding it to the rice protein is that it does not have enough leucine to activate the mTOR pathway. Whey already does, so is it necessary?

I'm not saying it's NOT necessary, I'm just not too convinced that it is...

(I should've mentioned in my last post that Layne only talked about it in the context of proteins that were lacking in leucine. Wheat protein in particular)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:35 am 
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There is something to it. Additional leucine still seems to be beneficial for anabolism and protein synthesis. I don't know if it's the fast absorbtion rates of whey, or just the pure capacity of leucine to add even more results to your training.
http://www.ergo-log.com/leucineposttrainingmeal.html
http://www.ergo-log.com/addedleucine.html
http://www.ergo-log.com/proteinplusaminoacids.html

The first one is the study that tries to tell something, the other two are showing some results (the other has a AA mix, the other uses more glutamine). But it still raises questions if whey+leucine combo would actually be better than just whey. It's just not as necessary as with you perhaps.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:52 am 
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interesting stuff there Dub. I wonder then what the upper limit of leucine is to be effective? I mean you can't surely just keep on adding more and more...

I thought from the study of rice protein + leucine that it was just a matter of having enough to activate muscle building, but it seems to be dose-dependent.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Dub wrote:
As is John Kiefer for one ...


That's not much a a recommendation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:00 pm 
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stuward wrote:
Dub wrote:
As is John Kiefer for one ...

That's not much a a recommendation.

I know he has a bit of a cherry-picking research. But I still know that he knows lots, and reads a lot as well. Many of his ideas are good and science-based, the main problem is too narrow-minded approach and opinion on things.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:59 pm 
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what's wrong with John Kiefer? Apart from the fact he charges like $90 for his carb backloading book which you could explain in 4 sentences


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:31 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
what's wrong with John Kiefer? Apart from the fact he charges like $90 for his carb backloading book which you could explain in 4 sentences


There have been debates recently on his creatine recommendations and that awful article about why women shouldn't run. He's lost a lot of credibility recently.

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