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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:27 pm 
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After working out on and off for about 3 years at home, I'm finally joining a gym so I'll have access to barbells, machines, and heavier dumbells. I'm trying to decide on a routine to increase my strength. I also want to build muscle, but my primary goal is to increase my strength. Here are a couple routines I was thinking about:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workou ... ion?page=3

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dennis1.htm#5
(Click on chapter 5, then scroll down to "6 week strength phase")

Do you think these are good routines?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:11 pm 
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The first one looks like a pretty good beginner program, although I'd recommend Turkish Get-ups over Side Bends. Also, I'd recommend performing bench presses on squat day and military presses on deadlift day, rather than the other way around.

As you get stronger, you may wish to perform deadlifts less often then most of your other lifts, but as a beginner this should work well.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:20 am 
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I believe most guys that train natural are overtraining; hence, you see guys train for years on end without a lot of results. Just look at how they spend 2 hours at the gym overdoing it all. If you read the writings of the great Mike Mentzer, you'll see he advocated H.I.T training heavily - along with Dorian Yates (the big man himself!) :)

I personally prefer hybrid HIT, I use evolutionary HIT , as I combine HIT and HIIT together.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:09 am 
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@Jclem23:

I like the first routine - beginners do better with brief full body routines than they do with split routines.

The nice part about being a beginner is that practically any routine will produce results quickly - if you work hard, take rest and eat a good diet.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:11 am 
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option 1 looks like a mix of some of the most common beginner routines. i think it's a good routine to follow.

option 2 is bull$h1t.

matt's advice is good. i would also do squat/bench press on one day and deadlifts/military press on the other day.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:45 am 
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Thanks for the responses. I'll start by using the first routine then. This is my variation of it:


Monday:
Squats 5 x 5
Bench press 5 x 5
Barbell Rows 5 x 5
Barbell Curls 3 x 5

Wed:
Deadlift: 3 x 5
OH presses 5 x 5
Pullups 3 x MAX
Incline Bench press 3 x5 OR chest dips 3 x MAX

Friday:
Squats 5 x 5
Bench press 5 x 5
Barbell Rows 5 x 5
Barbell Curls 3 x 5


Staggered ab work each workout- no more than 3 sets of 2 different exercises.
(Ex: 1 set of pullups would be supersetted with 1 set of hanging leg raises)

Cardio as needed- no more than 3 times a week on off days



What do you guys think of this?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:45 am 
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Jclem23 wrote:
What do you guys think of this?


Adding curls to the routine doesn't make it better. But a lot of trainers are hooked on curls, so I won't try to talk you out of dropping them.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Stephen Johnson wrote:
Jclem23 wrote:
What do you guys think of this?


Adding curls to the routine doesn't make it better. But a lot of trainers are hooked on curls, so I won't try to talk you out of dropping them.



The routine says so can add one exercise of your choice, so why not curls?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:24 am 
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Jclem23 wrote:
Stephen Johnson wrote:
Jclem23 wrote:
What do you guys think of this?


Adding curls to the routine doesn't make it better. But a lot of trainers are hooked on curls, so I won't try to talk you out of dropping them.



The routine says so can add one exercise of your choice, so why not curls?


The routine you posted now looks pretty much like Stronglifts 5x5... A Routine (rep/set scheme) to make you primarily stronger using barbell compound lifts. The curls are an isolation exercise, which isn`t a bad thing as such... but as a beginner it is unnecessary to train single muscles and the arm muscles are normally trained enough with the listed compound exercises. Especially when you use heavy weights doing 5x5. (You are also "doubling" bench press and incline bench press? (and also do OHP)... I would prefer Dips in that position instead of incline bench press.) You could use an underhand grip when doing pull ups to emphasize your biceps a little more.

But as Stephen Johnson said... you will probably do the curls no matter what we write ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:53 am 
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Jclem23 wrote:
The routine says so can add one exercise of your choice, so why not curls?


Crow said explicitly in his post what I implied in mine - isolation exercises aren't really needed in a routine if increasing strength is the goal.

Once you get to a desired strength level, you might find that certain muscles in your physique are lagging in appearance. That's when adding isolation exercises (to bring up the lagging muscles) to your routines make sense.

If you must do curls in your current routine, switch from 3x5 to 2-3x8-10. Doing 8-10 reps per set supports muscle hypertrophy better than 5.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Alright thanks for the responses


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Aw, humor his gunz. The curls won't really hurt.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Do you think chinups are better than barbell curls for the first and third day? And chest dips for the second day?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:42 am 
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Quote:
Jclem23 wrote:
After working out on and off for about 3 years at home, I'm finally joining a gym so I'll have access to barbells, machines, and heavier dumbells. I'm trying to decide on a routine to increase my strength. I also want to build muscle, but my primary goal is to increase my strength. Here are a couple routines I was thinking about:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workou ... ion?page=3


Parts of this program don't make sense.

Sit Ups Reps

The abdominals should be trained the same as other muscle groups.

Thus, 25 reps makes not sense. Individuals who advocate this need to come out of the dark ages.

Straight Sets Warm Ups

This is referred to as a Flat Pyramid. I love how other come up with their own terminology.

The point of a warm up is to prepare the muscles for the top set. That means you want to perform the minimal amount of work to warm up and SAVE everything for you top sets.

Example Warm Up for 275 X 5 X 3

Set 1: 135 X 5

Set 2: 185 X 2-3

Set 3: 225 X 1

Sets 4-6: 275 X 5

Ramped Up Warm Ups

The example is a great way to exhaust your strength before you get to your top set.

Warm Ups Example:

Set 1: 135 X 5

Set 2: 185 X 3

Set 3: 225 X 1

Set 4: 250 X 1

Set 5: 280 X 5 plus Reps


Quote:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dennis1.htm#5
(Click on chapter 5, then scroll down to "6 week strength phase")


The Periodization sequence of Hypertrophy/Size to Strength make sense.

However, the Bulking Phase is a mixed bag.

Classic Mass-Building Diet

This makes no sense.

The diet is desigened by a carbophobic.

You need at least a 1:1 or 1:2 Protein to Carbohydrate intake.

This diet doesn't provide you with that.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:56 am 
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Quote:
JasperHabicht wrote:
I believe most guys that train natural are overtraining; hence, you see guys train for years on end without a lot of results. Just look at how they spend 2 hours at the gym overdoing it all.


Overtraining

This is a good point. Too many individuals overtrain.


Quote:
If you read the writings of the great Mike Mentzer, you'll see he advocated H.I.T training heavily - along with Dorian Yates (the big man himself!) :)


HIT

It has is place in training. However, at some point to really make progress, multi-set movement need to be performed. HIT just isn't going to get the job done.

Mentzer and Yates

The irony is both build their physiques with multi-set exercises. Then they switched to HIT.

Thus, they built their foundation with multi-set and then ended up maintaining it with HIT.

However, Mentzer turned into a fat pig before his death.

Doing What Works

If HIT were truly the path to glory, every athlete on the planet would embrace it, worship it and pay homage to it.

But that is NOT the case.

Kenny Croxdale

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