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 Post subject: New and need help.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Hello, i am new to this forum and i am hoping this isnt one of those forums that is going to tear me up because i am new to all this. But here it goes. I am 18 years old 5' 10'' 165 pounds. I want to jump right into working out and body building. I have little i mean little practice with this. I would like to know reps work out routine and supplements (if needed) that i should be using. My legs are already a strong base, the focus as of now is toning the stomach and i also would like arms that fill out my shirt more. Again i am new so i hope this doesnt back fire. Any help that you guys can offer. Ill take anything. Routines, tips, reps, rep time, set #. So please help, i know this will take time, but something where i will see some sort of a result soon.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:39 pm 
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The way I see whole bodybuilding (hypertrophy) type training is to train 70-90% of your 1 rep max weight.

So if you bench 150lbs 1x times then you do sets of

70lbs x 8 reps, 8 reps, 8 reps. Normally I can do 4 sets before going failure. After this I stop because this is not endurance contest. Your job is to just stimulate fibers and that's it.

It's too much to write for routine and it depends person but I give you tip is to progress with weights eather by volume or by strenght.

So by adding new weight for your 80% for your workload. Or by trying to make your 4th set 8 rep instead 7 which it was last time.

Or don't even count your 1rep max. Do 5x8, 5x12, 4x4 and try to progress with volume by example doing 6 sets instead 5 at 70% or intensity by incrasing weight on your example 80% load. Do clean reps and don't use momentum. Personally I go only once to failure but if you plan going failure each set I recommend doing mike mentzer type training instead where you have low volume, high intensity.

What particular 60-90% of your 1 rep max and how many reps 4-15 being optimal wise I don't know and might also depend with person. It doesn't matter that much and you can change it how you want. As long as you improve your working overload you'll do fine. Best is to have notebook to follow your progress. Pick excercises you like from exrx site and train each bodypart 1-2x per week depending how you recover.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:49 am 
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jaredkforbes wrote:
Hello, i am new to this forum and i am hoping this isnt one of those forums that is going to tear me up because i am new to all this. But here it goes. I am 18 years old 5' 10'' 165 pounds. I want to jump right into working out and body building. I have little i mean little practice with this. I would like to know reps work out routine and supplements (if needed) that i should be using. My legs are already a strong base, the focus as of now is toning the stomach and i also would like arms that fill out my shirt more. Again i am new so i hope this doesnt back fire. Any help that you guys can offer. Ill take anything. Routines, tips, reps, rep time, set #. So please help, i know this will take time, but something where i will see some sort of a result soon.


If you are really serious with weight training, I would start building a solid base before focusing on bodyparts...

Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Row, Overhead Press and Chin ups activate the most muscle and would be a good start for a balanced physique.

Try a beginners programme like Starting Strength, StrongLifts 5x5 or for example the following (trained in the same style like the mentioned programmes before: Training on Mon., Wed., Fri. alternating A and B):
A: Squats, Bench Press, Row (worksets 3x5 each)
B: Deadlifts, Press, Chin up (worksets 1x5 Deadlifts, 3x5 for the other two)

Try to start low (like 50% of your Bodyweight on Squats and Deadlifts and 30% of your Bodyweight on Bench Press, Press and Row; for Chin ups, work up to 3x5 with your bodyweight and put some weight on afterwards). Try to put some more weight on the bar each training session (for example 5lbs.).

The first sessions will be easy and it is advisable to work on your technique to train safe without injuring yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:56 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
So you're a skinny 18 year old looking to get a good body eh? Ah yes, I remember it well. Heed my advice young 'un and you'll do just fine.

Now, given that you're a beginner, most people will tell you to stick to full body routines, getting strong in the basic compound lifts.

I am not one of those people.

I will design for you a workout, but first I need to know how many times a week you plan on hitting the gym? Once I know that, I can help.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:40 am
Posts: 1996
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What Crow said.

Don't worry about supplements. The only one that works is creatine and you can get what you need from eating meat. Protein powder is nothing more than highly processed food. Don't let anyone tell you different. Use it for convenience.

There is no such thing as toning. It is almost impossible to get bigger without getting fatter. For the most part, you either lose weight until you look more "shredded" or you gain muscle and put on fat. The body builders you see are a result of massive amounts of drugs and hard work. You can cycle between bulking and cutting, but you will have to choose what you want more - the six pack or the gunz.

Eat clean by following this rule: If you can't kill it or grow it, don't eat it and avoid the white devil. That means don't eat anything that is processed (flour based products including 'whole grain), and don't eat white potatoes or white rice.

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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Beginners of normal weight don't really need to be concerned with bulking and cutting yet. For the first 6 months or so, assuming a healthy diet, they can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Many people call that toning, even if it's technically incorrect.

I also disagree that white potatoes and white rice are bad in normal amounts for most people.

Otherwise, what Hoosegow said.

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Stu Ward
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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:52 pm
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I would definetly say start with basics.

Do the stronglifts routine. You dont even need supplements if you are new. Just eat and eat and eat some more. In a year, try to switch out and modify your workout from strong lifts to suit bodybuilding more


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Just to clarify stu... the white devil comment was a joke. I do say stay away from them if you want to get lean. Otherwise they are perfectly fine.

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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
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"The way I see whole bodybuilding (hypertrophy) type training is to train 70-90% of your 1 rep max weight. So if you bench 150lbs 1x times then you do sets of 70lbs x 8 reps, 8 reps, 8 reps. Normally I can do 4 sets before going failure. After this I stop because this is not endurance contest. Your job is to just stimulate fibers and that's it." - excore

:scratch: Did he mean to say 100 lbs x 1 rep?


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
PS) Going to failure isn't necessary for a beginner, and not always a good idea, especially when you're first learning a new lift. In fact, it's not always the best approach for an advanced lifter.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:47 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
The best single piece of advice I can give you is to be a form-nazi. That means you'll have to be patient, since it takes time to learn good technique. It's also humbling, since if you're lifting properly, you won't be able to move much weight in the beginning. However, in the long run, you'll get better results and suffer far fewer injuries if you train correctly from day one.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:31 pm 
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robertscott, I plan on hitting the gym about 4 to 5 days a week at night. I wouldnt call myself skinny i am have a tiny belly chub like a normal person. But i am not skinny nor i am fat.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:35 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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jaredkforbes wrote:
robertscott, I plan on hitting the gym about 4 to 5 days a week at night. I wouldnt call myself skinny i am have a tiny belly chub like a normal person. But i am not skinny nor i am fat.


ok brother, so with that in mind I'm going to recommend you train in the classic body part split. That's assuming you are going to train 4 or 5 times a week. I'd personally do it Monday - Friday, which'll give you your weekends for all the fun stuff you should be doing at the weekend.

if you'd only been able to train 3 of 4 times in a week, then you'd have been better doing what are known as full body workouts (which include exercises for your upper and lower body) or an upper/lower split (which divides your workouts between upper body exercises and lower body exercises, obviously), but seeing as you can commit to 4 or 5 days a week, the bodypart split is best.

It also takes into account the fact that you are young and wanting to look good, and folk in that situation usually prefer to do bodypart splits. It's also good because you say your legs are a strong point, so training them once a week like on a bodypart split will be enough (if they were a weak point then you could've done an upper/lower split training them twice).

So here's the training guidelines:

-train each bodypart once a week (don't train your favourite more than others!)
-For each bodypart, do 3 -5 sets of 3 -5 exercises (around 18 total sets per workout is fine).
-Keep reps between 8 - 12, except for leg exercises where you can go a little higher (up to 20)
-Don't worry too much about timing your rests, but try to keep it to under a couple of minutes

Some specific guidelines for individual bodyparts

chest:
-A big pressing movement is essential, either with the barbell or dumbells. Work up to a heavy set of 8
-An incline pressing movement is also essential, reps can be a little higher than your main press
-some kind of fly
-dips are great if you can do them without hurting your shoulders

Back
-need vertical pull (think pulldown) and horizontal pull (think rows)
-2 of each of these is grand

Legs
-some kind of squat MAKE SURE YOUR FORM IS GOOD, high reps
-some kind of deadlift (romanian deadlifts are good)
-leg press, really high reps (like 25)
-Leg curls

Shoulders
-lateral and rear delt raises will do more for how your shoulders look than overhead pressing, do them first
-a seated press on a high incline is better for bodybuilding than a standing overhead press
-do some face pulls at the end of your shoulder routine to keep em happy

As for your arms, well you are too early in your journey to need to devote a whole workout to them, so just do two triceps exercises after your chest workout and two biceps exercises after your back workouts. If you really can't live without an arms day, then train your biceps and triceps together as superset (do a set for tri's followed immediately by a set for bi's), pick 3 groups of exercises and do 3 sets.

YOUR DIET IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING

try and eat 1g of protein per lb of your bodyweight, so for you that'd be 165g of protein. It doesn't matter if you are a little under, but don't bother about going over. Eat your vegetables and try and keep junk food to a minimum (the occasional indulgence is ok).

I really can't stress enough the importance of a good diet.

So there you go! Use those guidelines to design yourself a routine, train hard, eat well and enjoy being muscular my friend!

If you like, you can post up the routine you want to try and I'll critique it for you.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:37 pm 
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robertscott See that is were my problem lies. I dont know all the different workout routines, or the different techniches in general.


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 Post subject: Re: New and need help.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:20 am 
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You don`t need to know "all the different workout routines, or the different techniques"... You need to be sure about your goal in order to pick the right workout routine for you. Then you can follow that programme as long as ist works and switch the programme when it doesn`t work anymore.

Most of us recommended to do a beginners programme (like Starting Strength oder Stronglifts 5x5) to build a solid base of strength and mass before switching to a bodybuilding-oriented split. The reason for this? You can`t sculpt a good statue from a tooth-pick.

On the other hand... if you aren`t motivated to do a certain programme, no matter how useful it could be for you, it won`t work either...

So... unless robertscott writes you a complete workout, you will have to read about strength training or the mentioned programmes to learn about it. The following is the description of Stronglifts5x5 for example: http://stronglifts.com/5x5/


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