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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:37 pm
by Jungledoc
Jason Nunn wrote:675 x 1 - felt like it was glued to the floor. Legs just felt aweful.
Yeah. I can relate. Last time I tried to pull 675 it felt pretty heavy, too. :sad:


Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:00 am
by Jason Nunn
Jungledoc wrote:
Jason Nunn wrote:675 x 1 - felt like it was glued to the floor. Legs just felt aweful.
Yeah. I can relate. Last time I tried to pull 675 it felt pretty heavy, too. :sad:

I think gravity must've been extra strong that day :lol:

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:41 pm
by Jungledoc
What are "frame picks"?

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:34 pm
by Jason Nunn
They're basically Frame deadlifts. Think trap bar deads with a larger apparatus with the handles just below the knees. My training partner was doing carries, but I was having this weird unstable feeling in my right knee, so I just picked them. (read picked up or deadlifted)

Here's a clip of a frame carry. Fast forward about :45 in.

Also, I saw your comment on EFS. I completely agree. When it comes to situations like that, I try to do the research to help, but all I come up with is "The person needs to do resistance training." Great. Now what? I had the same thing happen when I had a client come in with Congestive Heart Failure. The research I read had people doing seated leg extensions, ect. Perfect! (Sarcasm). With the lady that was osteoporosis, I tried many times to contact her physician so we could work together on this and help many more of her patients and got zero response. I train a couple physicians in the area and have spoken with them about maybe doing some things with their patients (post chemo cancer, type II diabetes, ect) but haven't been able to work anything out yet. I think part of the problem is the stigma that the personal training/fitness industry has is causing some reluctancy from physicians to work with trainers.

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:57 pm
by Jungledoc
I'm getting more and more interested in the treatment of medical disease with exercise. I think I posted something about The Center for Strong Medicine in Sydney, Australia, where they treat everything from diabetes to Parkinson's disease with resistance exercise. One of their slogans is "There is no client too frail". I wonder how they approach osteoporosis.

Right now, I don't think that there is anything you can do but guess cautiously. Considering that some osteoporosis patients are in danger of spontaneous fractures, that is with NO provocation, it's a risky area. It seems to me that it should be possible to establish ranges of density that are safe to do loaded jumps, some unloaded jumps, some squatting only, etc. Obviously, you couldn't really determine it experimentally, but would have to accumulate data about what activity people were doing at the time of fractures, and try to correlate them with their bone densities at the time.

I'm sure that many doctors are worried about liability issues. If they referred someone to you, and the client had a fracture while exercising in your gym, the doctor could conceivably be held liable for referring to someone with out medical qualifications. It might be different for a PT. It just seems like if there were some sort of guidelines everyone would be safer.

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:58 am
by robt-aus
while i have to say i don't understand fully the legal, physical or training implications of this discussion as an unqualified recreational exerciser, it is apparent that Professor Maria Fiatarone Singh has written extensively on the management of osteoporotic fractures, and osteoarthritis in general.

Sadly, many of the highly relevant articles are not freely available.

more easily accessible:

Fiatarone Singh, M. A. (2004). Physical activity and bone health. Aust Fam Physician, 33(3), 125. [PMID 15054975] - ... t=Citation

- sadly these publications aren't easily available online:

Fiatarone Singh, M. A. (2007) Exercise to help prevent osteoporotic fractures: Guidelines. Medicine Today 8 (2): 61-64.

Fiatarone Singh, M. A. Exercise to help prevent osteoporotic fractures: Instructions for Patients. Medicine Today (in press, accepted 14/2/07).

Fiatarone Singh, MA. (2007) Exercise and osteoporotic fracture prevention. Part 2: Prescribing exercise. Medicine Today 8 (1): 31-41.

Fiatarone Singh, M. A. (2006) Exercise and osteoporotic fracture prevention. Part 1: The role of exercise. Medicine Today 7 (12): 30-39.

their references page is fascinating - ... blications.

To add some general local knowledge, the founders of the centre are associated with one of Australia's premier medical faculties at one of Australia's best Universities - with hope the principles of the centre will have increasing influence.

hmm... the centre is a ferry ride from my current place of work. is a little sad i've entirely the wrong background and training to do any applied work there.

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:40 am
by Jungledoc
Robert--Thanks! I'm sure that many of those articles would be of interest to both Jason and to me. This discussion started elsewhere, so that's why it may seem a bit random. Jason wrote an article for EFS about training a lady with osteoporosis, and I left a comment there.

I just realized earlier that both the Singhs have posted their bibliographies on the CSM site. I was going to read through them this evening. I may be able to access some of those articles that the general public can't. If I can find some useful guidelines or protocols, I'll post about it in the Exercise Science section.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:19 am
by Jungledoc
Turns out that the 2 articles I most wanted to access are right there on the CSM site. I posted the link in the thread in General about training a 60 year-old novice.

Notice that they don't limit jumping except to avoid flexion/extension or rotation of the lumbar spine.