Creatine dosing?

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brook011
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Creatine dosing?

Post by brook011 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:41 pm

Creatine Ethyl Ester.. does it have to be loaded? I have some coming and I can't seem to find any information on it. I haven't taken it in years, and last time I had taken creatine, I had to choke down a glass of sand, so its been awhile. Basically I will be moving to a preworkout no2 supp and postworkout creatine ee supp.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:47 pm

5g of micronized creatine monohydrate post-workout should be fine.

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Post by brook011 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:57 pm

I went with Storm from Universal Nutrition, I also have some ce2 from MRI because it was too cheap to not buy it "20$ for 60ce2/120no2", just wasnt sure if i was supposed to load this.

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Post by jordie8205 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:31 am

ironmaiden708 wrote:5g of micronized creatine monohydrate post-workout should be fine.
Can it also be used pre-workout? Which is best post or pre?

Thanks

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:50 am

Just use post workout there is no point in taking it pre workout. Taking post will get your muscles 'loaded' for the next session.

On a side note I never understood this whole loading phase. Take 30g a day for a week so you can waste all your creatine. But it is recommended.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:54 am

An explanation that I found was that for the first few days of creatine supplementation is that taking 20g will load up the muscles with creatine in their storage areas and then after that it gets pissed out. So then you take maintenance amounts which is 5g post workout.

It's important to get the right kind. Creatine EE is 2x as expensive as Monohyhdrate, it's a gimmick by companies. Take Micronized Creatine Monohydrate, it will absorb better.

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Post by brook011 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Not to discredit you ironmaiden, but if you had to search what the loading phase was, would you really know the difference? CEE is better for how its absorbed right away versus loading monohydrate, and its more soluable so it doesn't sit in your stomach/upset your stomach, at least from what I can find. I was looking for actual user responses, just outright calling it a gimmick without evidence supporting either way really doesn't help "I know theres no science thats pro-cee, but I believe it's because there hasn't been enough clinical study of it yet". Best I can go off of is the great reviews on the non-bloating, which I'd pay more for that alone. I don't mean to attack you, and I know what you mean by gimmick, because most of whats on the market is gimmicky. I guess 28$ for 80 servings, I will have to risk it and see what happens :)

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:24 pm

I'm presenting the opinion to you from John Berardi himself who is the head of Precision Nutrition, trains world class athletes, sets up diets for the athletes, is well known for his work. I don't care what you do, I'm just giving you the information. Whats the big deal with bloating? A little water weight won't kill you.

http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4394

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1075898 - heres a good brand

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:53 pm

As a side note, be conscious of your caffeine intake when using creatine. Studies have shown that caffeine completely negates the affects of creatine supplementation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8929583
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11796658
http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index. ... row=326539

I wish I knew this a few years ago when I was using creatine. It seemed to work for a few weeks, but then seemed to completely stop. Looking back, I had started using an ECA stack at that time. I wrote creatine off as a gimmick, but now I’d venture to say the caffeine in that stack is what killed the creatine.

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Post by brook011 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:01 pm

ironmaiden708 wrote:I'm presenting the opinion to you from John Berardi himself who is the head of Precision Nutrition, trains world class athletes, sets up diets for the athletes, is well known for his work. I don't care what you do, I'm just giving you the information. Whats the big deal with bloating? A little water weight won't kill you.

http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4394

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1075898 - heres a good brand
Summertime sir. I want the boost in endurance in the gym, but I don't want to lose the cutting work I've done for the 4-5 weeks of the cycle.

http://www.vitacost.com/Universal-Nutri ... 9442048004

That's what I bought, I'm going to give it a shot. It seems to cover all of the creatine bases. Thanks for the articles :)

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:32 pm

http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4574 This link contains another pov on the coffee and creatine issue.

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:08 pm

That POV is speculative and inconclusive.
Although, we are pretty convinced that coffee will probably not lead to a huge reduction in the effectiveness of creatine supplementation, we have decided to go ahead and do a definitive study. In collaboration with our lab mates and lab director at the University of Western Ontario, we plan to look at the effects of creatine, creatine plus caffeine, creatine plus coffee, and placebo. This study should, uhm, dissolve this debate once and for all. Until then, we won't be kicking Mr Coffee or Mr Creatine out of our lives just yet.
Did they ever follow up with their plan to investigate? What were the results?

And consider this, an 8oz cup of coffee can have as little as 60mg of caffeine. An ECA stack or a Caffeine supplement has 200mg. Add a couple of supplements to 2 cups of coffee and some tea, and you’re looking at 600mg or more in a day.

Study or not, I know from personal experience that high levels of caffeine did negate the effects of creatine for me.

Who knows, maybe it's different for eveyone.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:14 pm

Did they ever follow up with their plan to investigate? What were the results?
I'm not debating this, I'm adding another POV.

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:18 pm

ironmaiden708 wrote:
Did they ever follow up with their plan to investigate? What were the results?
I'm not debating this, I'm adding another POV.
I'm not debating either. But I would like to know what they found out.

Since caffeine did affect creatine supplementation for me, I'm curious as to why it might not affect another? Was it something other than caffeine in the stack I was using? Was it the total amount of caffeine I was using? Is it something in my genetics?

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Post by brook011 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:26 pm

All I could guess is that the caffeine dehydrates you when you need to drink alot of water to support the creatine process into the muscles... though the note about administering the creatine with coffee note sounded good.. I take alot of caffeine, but I also drink tons of water.. Well beyond the 6-8 glasses. Just something I'm used to having, tons of cold water.

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