Advice for a mostly vegetarian

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anandsr21
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Post by anandsr21 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:40 am

Thanks. I was hoping that I could get some more advice on other aspects such as exercises and diet schedule. I am going to try and make the ham in the morning a regular feature.


anandsr21
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Post by anandsr21 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:55 am

I read some more, and realized why having higher protein may be beneficial, which has nothing to do with muscle building. It has a higher thermic effect and if it is higher then the glycemic load is lower, reducing insulin and the associated fat storage. This means that it is easier to reduce fat and fight growth of fat when protein content is higher.

Well I think I can remove the bread from the breakfast, and add fruits and the slice of chicken ham daily (It is less unacceptable to my wife as it doesn't look like meat ;-). I will also remove the fruits from the day food. This would reduce the carbs in the day time reducing the glycemic load during the day, which may reduce the amount of fat stored due to insulin. The only trouble is that the volume of food is low, fruits used to make it filling. Anyway ultimately I will have to reduce the volume of food I consume.

what do you think of these changes?

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Post by anandsr21 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:08 am

I thought a lot more about it. And it seems I am doomed to having a larger body fat. But the good part is that I should be able to build muscle if I am not worried about the fat. Fat and muscle should get to a ratio decided by the protein ratio in my diet. At some point both will increase and decrease together, if I keep exercising.

My strategy will be to use diet control to reduce as much fat as possible, till the point I stop losing fat, and start feeling overtraining effects, ie my body is not recovering within the two days. At that point I will go into maintenance mode. I will still keep on trying to increase my strength but I will not be dieting below my maintenance level, beyond providing me a cheating day ;-). Cheating days are nice.

At that point I will have a decision to make. It will depend on how much fat I have and whether I consider it healthier to lose fat further and increase protein or consider my fat percentage acceptable.

I guess the Growth Hormone is the other part of the equation. So younger people can have a better muscle to fat ratio at the same protein percentage in the diet. I know I had little fat when I was younger with similar diet. I did not have lots of muscle but did not have any fat. I used to eat a lot too.

Thanks everybody for reading my thoughts patiently.

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Post by stuward » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:45 am

Protein ratio isn't the only thing affecting body fat ratio. Calorie deficit is important for fat loss, refeed on lifting days. Fruit is better than a lot of alternatives. Vegetables are bet for getting high nutrients with low calories but fruit is up there. You need to keep the volume of food up. Don't cut down fruit if it means you add more rice and bread in the future.

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Post by anandsr21 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:03 am

Stu I agree, calorie deficit is anyway the primary thing, every thing comes later. I meant that with a calorie deficit if protein ratio is not high, it will not be possible to build muscle even if there is enough protein in the diet. With no calorie deficit there is no need for protein ratio to be high, provided you don't mind not being able to make your abs visible, because you cannot get to very low levels of body fat.

I understand that getting very low body fat is out. But at least fitness can be improved to the next level. And building muscles is not out at least if Dr Phillips is correct.

Lots of fruit and vegetables are very important, even if meat cannot be added. Maybe few years down the line we will have good quality whey powders at reasonable rates in India.

I should also eat more on lifting days and less on recovering days. That would be better than a constant diet.

In summary I think that both Dr Phillips and Dr Berardi are correct. They are just stating research from different points of view. I guess for a young person as in less than 20years, high levels of protein will not be required in many cases. This is respect to only building strength.
Also a very active lifestyle would help to some extent.

regards,
-anandsr


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Post by stuward » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:46 am

Just for the record, I don't think there is a link to Dr. Phillip's article yet on this thread. I think it's this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1521 ... t=Abstract

This article is also relevant. http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/24/2/134S

My synopsis: The article was to determine if milk protein was better than soy protein. Fundamentally, the young can increase muscle mass and manage body fat better at lower levels of protein but the elderly in particular, would benefit from extra protein after workouts. Whey protein is best for this.

"Research reported here was supported by grants from the US National Dairy Council"

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Post by anandsr21 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:20 am

I thought the following arrangement for my diet will be an improvement.

After wakeup and before workout 5:00 - 5:30
(100gm)Yogurt + jam

Give a half hour break (utilize in other morning work) and then workout.

After workout 6:30 - 7:00
Milk(100ml) + honey(5ml) + cocoa powder(5gm)
2 Egg whites

Breakfast 8:30 - 9:00
2 Egg yolks (workout days)
Cottage Cheese(50gm) and fruits(150gm)
Milk(100ml) + honey(5ml) + cocoa powder(5gm) (non workout days)

12:30 - 1:00
Flat bread (roti) (30gm) + pulses (dal) (30gm) + cooked vegetables (50gm)

4:00 - 4:30
fruits (150gm) and cottage cheese (50gm) or sprouts (50gm)

7:00 - 7:30
Dal(30gm) + vegetables cooked (50gm)

9:00 - 9:30
roti or rice (30gm) + dal (30gm) + cooked vegetables(50gm).

What do you think about this? I think regular cottage cheese and sprouts will be a good addition. And there is more variety.

regards,
-anandsr

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Post by anandsr21 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:46 am

Thanks everybody,

I am losing almost 1kg every week, now at 85Kg.

I hope that this continues for a couple of month.

My weight should be below 74 according to BMI. I will be happy to reach 75.

My exercises are going OK, but a bit slower, compared to what the starting strength says. But then I am older and have a protein poor diet, with slightly less sleep (less than 7hrs most days)

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Post by stuward » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:10 am

As long as your strength is going up or staying the same, you should be retaining your muscle. If you find yourself getting weaker, add carbs. Older lifters need more protein. Are you using Whey?

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Post by anandsr21 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:41 am

The strength is increasing, but then it will increase because I am new to the Iron ;-).

Whey is too much for my budget. I am substituting with milk and eggs. It gives me more carbs, but still it is better than nothing.

I have doubled my lifting capabilities in a month.

I had two problems in my exercises.

I am trying to follow the Starting Strength program as best as I can at my home.

I have no place for a bench. So bench press is out of the question. But now I am able to do pushups properly. Now I will slowly increase elevation to get a nicely graded increase.

Squat is the major problem. Warmup sets can be done with the bar, because in absence of a squat cage, I can only use a bar that I can lift with my hands. I am doing the training set with dumbbells, but there is a limit for that, as it does cause a strain on the hands and wrist. Pity that it is the most important exercise in the program.

I have substituted power clean with pendlay rows, as suggested by Kethnaab.

I am moving next month and hopefully will be able to find a decent gym at the new place. I am skeptical though. Most gyms have machines, but lack free weights, how weird is that? Otherwise it will be a problem for the 3 months after, till my weights come to me. I will have the option of choosing a higher meat content diet for those 3 months.

I am trying to make the most of the available month.

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Post by pdellorto » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:45 am

anandsr21 wrote:I have no place for a bench. So bench press is out of the question. But now I am able to do pushups properly. Now I will slowly increase elevation to get a nicely graded increase.
As the angle increases, so does its similarity to the Press. Which is both good and bad - it's good because a handstand pushup is a good exercise. But bad because you'll be missing out on the heavy loads you can bench press.

Another option to consider is the Floor Press - you lay down on the floor and "bench" from there. Here is a link, but I'm certain you can find more videos and articles online. The Westside Barbell guys love these, and IIRC Pavel Tsatsouline recommended them in one of his books, too.

http://www.criticalbench.com/floor-press.htm
anandsr21 wrote:Squat is the major problem. Warmup sets can be done with the bar, because in absence of a squat cage, I can only use a bar that I can lift with my hands.
Check out the Steinborn lift:

http://stronglifts.com/ways-to-squat-wh ... quat-rack/

anandsr21 wrote:Most gyms have machines, but lack free weights, how weird is that?
It's not weird at all, which is the sad part.

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Post by anandsr21 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:26 am

Thanks a lot.

For the floor press I will wait till I am good at elevated pushups. Then initially I can use a backpack with weights. After that it will be a good exercise. I hope I can find a completely rubber 20kg plates so that I can put the barbell down across my body without it (hoping again) touching me.

The combination of Power clean and front squat seems ideal. Although the clean is a difficult exercise. I will have to wait sometime before I can get decent at the deadlift, because it is a prerequisite for doing powerclean safely.

My progress in deadlift is being slowed by my wrist. It is taking more time to recover than the rest of my body. I guess this is due to excessive usage of keyboards and mice. It is getting better though. I guess at the end I will have a sounder wrist to handle this excessive usage. I think that powerclean will also be dangerous for my wrist unless it is in good shape.

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Post by anandsr21 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:26 am

After reading more I think I should start with steinborn's squat immediately.
Thanks again.

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Post by anandsr21 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:35 am

I have started to get a hang of the Steinborn's lift. I have got to 41Kgs and feeling better.

My Deadlift is also progressing nicely, but I have run out of weights, have to buy some more.

Overhead press is becoming a problem. I am also not progressing very well in pushups.

I guess the real problem is that my shoulders and chest are not getting stronger so fast. I have never exercised before, but used to walk a lot. So legs are picking up very well but hands are not doing that well.

I guess over a month things should improve like they improved with my squat. I guess the trick is to reduce to something like 20% and then start progressing again. This gives the muscles some rest but with some reduced stress exercise. I will do this for the two exercises.

Thanks everybody. This site has helped me a lot.

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Post by stuward » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:12 am

If lack of weight is a problem, take the opportunity to work on single limbed exercises. Step ups are one of my favourites. They will seem ackward at first. That means your body is learning to do something it's not accustomed to and you're improving.

Overhead press will always lag lower body development. The smaller muscles don't respond as quickly to increased stress. It will take longer to progress and you will stall more frequently than with other lifts. Some people, like myself, just don't do as well with upper body exercises as with lower body. Keep at it.
I guess over a month things should improve like they improved with my squat. I guess the trick is to reduce to something like 20% and then start progressing again. This gives the muscles some rest but with some reduced stress exercise. I will do this for the two exercises.
The 20% number struck me as odd. That's a very small number. Maybe you meant reduce "by" 20%. That would make more sense. There are some good discussions on this site about deloading.

Stu


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