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Post by Jungledoc » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:35 pm

Daniel, that's confusing to me. And "acid" in food is not likely to have any systemic effect. If food is mildly acidic, it's nothing to what your stomach makes normally. If anything is acidic enough to have an effect on the stomach contents, it's probably too acidic to tolerate in your mouth and esophogus, and you wouldn't be eating it.

Systemically, the pH of our blood is finely regulated by a complex system of buffers and the very delicate control of the corbonic acid level. Foods don't have an effect on that.

Sometimes people are concerned about acid substances that are normal parts of our diet. For instance, I've known people to think that ascorbic acid might be bad, just because it's an "acid". It is, of course, vitamin C. So if there is something in grains (I can't imagine what it might be) that this author feels contributes to some sort of muscle break-down that is called "_____ acid", it might not be as bad as it sounds.


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Post by daniel4738 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:59 am

Jungledoc wrote:Daniel, that's confusing to me. And "acid" in food is not likely to have any systemic effect. If food is mildly acidic, it's nothing to what your stomach makes normally. If anything is acidic enough to have an effect on the stomach contents, it's probably too acidic to tolerate in your mouth and esophogus, and you wouldn't be eating it.

Systemically, the pH of our blood is finely regulated by a complex system of buffers and the very delicate control of the corbonic acid level. Foods don't have an effect on that.

Sometimes people are concerned about acid substances that are normal parts of our diet. For instance, I've known people to think that ascorbic acid might be bad, just because it's an "acid". It is, of course, vitamin C. So if there is something in grains (I can't imagine what it might be) that this author feels contributes to some sort of muscle break-down that is called "_____ acid", it might not be as bad as it sounds.
I have only recently picked up the book. Previously I had read the crossfit boards and laughed candidly at what I refer to as 'paleo nazis'. Personally I love peanut butter and found it a great snack or addition to protein shakes.

I reconciled myself to picking up the book and trying the diet out until feb to see how I feel.

From the book, one reason we should try not to eat net acidic foods such as peanuts, salts, vinegars, soybeans, grains etc is because they are net acid producing foods. Of course this makes me wonder the same thing about net alkaline foods and nitrates.

This requires that our body equalizes the pH by releasing calcium into the blood, typically from the muscles, which is then effectively 'peed away'.

Another reason is that a net blood acidity will hamper the absorption of nutrients.

I am certainly no nutritional expert, but I am a scientist (physics) and his work does seem to have a lot of research backing it up. He also advocates a more conventional during/post exercise eating regime.

On a low/no grain diet I am practically eating paleo anyway, but I thought I would see if it improves my athletic performance in a race I will compete in in Feb.

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Post by Ironman » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:34 am

I always heard that when you eat the acidic food your body leaches calcium from the bones. It happens in the kidneys I think. It is a cause of kidney stones and thinning of the bones. I always thought it sounded like bollocks but I'm not sure. I always thought about how acidic stomach contents are and wondered why a little phosphoric acid in soda matters. come to think of it soda has sodium in it too which is a base. Soda was supposed to be the main culprit. And if I have learned anything, it is, If it is about soda, it's BS. Doubly so if it's diet. Those stories are always a veritable bovine colostomy explosion of nuclear proportions.

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Post by daniel4738 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:02 am

Ironman wrote:I always heard that when you eat the acidic food your body leaches calcium from the bones. It happens in the kidneys I think. It is a cause of kidney stones and thinning of the bones. I always thought it sounded like bollocks but I'm not sure. I always thought about how acidic stomach contents are and wondered why a little phosphoric acid in soda matters. come to think of it soda has sodium in it too which is a base. Soda was supposed to be the main culprit. And if I have learned anything, it is, If it is about soda, it's BS. Doubly so if it's diet. Those stories are always a veritable bovine colostomy explosion of nuclear proportions.
This was the impression I had too, which is why I picked up the book. Maybe I am just gullible, but he really did explain it well and his CV is pretty impressive.

http://www.irosacea.org/pdf/cordainCV.pdf

I guess I also like it that he isn't as fanatical as the crossfit crowd tend to be. Particularly with exercise nutrition.

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Post by daniel4738 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:31 am

I re-read the section on acid foods and he states explicitly that it is foods which cause the blood acidity to rise.

Not necessarily acidic foods, but those which have an effect of raising the blood acidity.

Does it make any more sense?


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Post by Ironman » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:15 am

I know that, and I still think it sounds fishy. It could be true, it maybe not. I have not seen any proof either way, but I am very suspicious and skeptical.

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Post by Jungledoc » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:47 am

daniel4738 wrote:I re-read the section on acid foods and he states explicitly that it is foods which cause the blood acidity to rise.

Not necessarily acidic foods, but those which have an effect of raising the blood acidity.

Does it make any more sense?
Nope.

Your body can correct slight fluctuations in acidity in seconds, just by altering the respiratory rate. The kidneys also make adjustments that counter chronic problems. I don't believe that the blood acidity of a basically healthy person (someone able to walk around without wheezing and gasping) can be changed a bit by what he or she eats. It's held in a very narrow range.

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Post by stuward » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:06 pm

Here's an interesting review of the Cordain book:
http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/paleodiet.html

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Post by mattk25 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:39 pm

I've heard that chocolate milk is one of the best things after a workout. Is the sugar content not a problem with this? Which would be better, drinking a protein shake or chocolate milk after a workout?

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Post by stuward » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:50 pm

After workouts your body is glycogen depleted and is prepared to use insulin for rebuilding muscle. Sugar, it the presence of protein is what does that. However, the glycogen will replenish itself within 24 hours anyway so unless you need to workout twice a day, iit's not critical. Chocolate milk has close to optimum ratios of carbs and protein. It is possible to create a better drink from adding whey protein and a fast acting carb like sugar and possibly some BCAAs, etc. Commercial blends like Surge will also work better than Chocolate milk. Many people have milk allergies so you have to go with what is easily available and works for you.

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Post by mattk25 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:12 pm

So if I add Whey Protein to chocolate milk would that make it better?

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Post by pdellorto » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:33 pm

Only if the amount of protein in that milk isn't sufficient. Which is probably is already.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:24 pm

So if I add Whey Protein to chocolate milk would that make it better?
It would add more protein to your drink and if that is your definition of better then yes.

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Post by Ironman » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:58 am

Jungledoc wrote:
daniel4738 wrote:I re-read the section on acid foods and he states explicitly that it is foods which cause the blood acidity to rise.

Not necessarily acidic foods, but those which have an effect of raising the blood acidity.

Does it make any more sense?
Nope.

Your body can correct slight fluctuations in acidity in seconds, just by altering the respiratory rate. The kidneys also make adjustments that counter chronic problems. I don't believe that the blood acidity of a basically healthy person (someone able to walk around without wheezing and gasping) can be changed a bit by what he or she eats. It's held in a very narrow range.

Now that sounds more believable. I figured that was probably the case. My bull$hit detector has been pretty good these last few years. Ever since discovering most of the things you hear and think you know are a lie. Like the urban legends, diet and exercise myths and all that stuff.


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