I would appreciate some advise on my diet please.

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Doctor Devious
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I would appreciate some advise on my diet please.

Post by Doctor Devious » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:12 pm

First let me start by saying I'm new to this board so hello all.

I would appreciate some advise/constructive criticism on my work out and current diet please.

A little information first.
I am male, 5' 9" and 167lbs and just started training again.
When i trained before i got up to 189lbs.

I took about 8 months out from training and and ate really crappy foods, not that i ate that clean anyway and lost about a 21lbs. Back to having skinny arms and a belly.

The thing is i have never been lean since i started training so have decided to do things a little different this time around, get more aesthetic results and hopefully not loose interest.

This time around i am going to strip the fat first and then try and put on muscle whilst remaining relatively lean. I figure it will give me more motivation if i can see some definition as i am growing and i have read it is better for your insulin, not that i understand that fully

So far since i have started (10 weeks in) I have dropped loads of fat and put on muscle which was a surprise to me due to my diet. I did not expect to gain any muscle as i am only eating 200gms of Carbs on my off days and 260 on my on days. Just for information I am only 1lb lighter on the scales from when i started but look a lot better.

I do a combination of free weights and machines depending on the exercise. I intend to go completely to free weights when i start bulking. Hopefully to shock my system a little and allow my some nice gains. Any opinion on this is appreciated.

One final note.
I am getting stronger all the time and my reps and weights are going up almost every time i train. I did not expect this on low Carbs.

I appreciate this is a long post but after reading loads of other post and seeing replies asking for more information i thought i would try and get it right first time :lol:

Below is my work out routine and diet.
All exercises are 3 x 8 - 12 reps increasing weight when the 12th rep is achieved.

Is this sustainable?


MONDAY All machines
Quadriceps. Leg Press
Ham Strings. Leg Curl
Quadriceps. Leg Extension
Abductor Extension
Abductor Contract
Glutes. Glute Machine
Calves. Calf Machine

WEDNESDAY
Lats. Lat pull down cable
Deltoid Side. Upright Row FW
Main Back. Back Machine
Deltoid Rear. Back Machine
Traps. Shrug FW
Triceps. Cable Push Down
Triceps. Machine

FRIDAY
Pectoral Major. Pectoral Machine
Pectoral Minor. Pectoral Machine
Flys. Pectoral Machine
Deltoid Front. Shoulder Press FW
Biceps. Curls FW
Biceps. Hammers FW
Abdominal Main. Crunch
Abdominal Oblique. Twist with bar on shoulders

My diet apart from my evening meal and post workout shake on training days is the same all week.

Meal 1:
Breakfast. I have limited time in the morning and need to eat fast.
60 gms of crunchy nut corn flakes = 50gms Carbs
30 gms of protein via a shake.
zinc
omega 3 cap
vitamin b complex (Keeps me sane)
A Multivitamin for good measure
1 x pint of water.

Meal2:
Mid morning snack
I large banana = 20gms Carbs roughly
30 gm's Protein via a shake.

Meal 3:
Lunch.
1 x chicken breast, diced = 30gms protein
75 gms white rice = 57gms of carbs.
I normally mix this with balsamic dressing, pesto or whatever i can find.

Meal 4:
Mid afternoon snack and prework out meal on training days
1 large banana = 20gms roughly
30 gms of protein via a shake

on a work out day i have an after training shake
60 gms of Maltodextrin
50 gms of weigh / casein protein 65 % / 33%

Meal5:
evening meal
50 gms of some Carbs potatoes, rice etc
30 gms of some protein beef, chicken ,lamb etc
sweet corn, peas, tomatoes or whatever i can find that i like,
I don't really like my veggies so don't eat to many

Thank you
Doctor Devious
Last edited by Doctor Devious on Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


ironmaiden708
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Post by ironmaiden708 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:01 pm

How long have you been lifting for? Because from what I see you have quite an insane routine going on. Too complicated. Search a 4 day split on the website.

So are your goals to solely drop fat? BTW welcome to the site.

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Post by brook011 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:59 pm

Get those corn flakes out of there man. Figure a way to get yourself some oats in there. The packaging makes it sound good for you, but they're some crappy carbs.

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:37 am

ironmaiden708 wrote:How long have you been lifting for? Because from what I see you have quite an insane routine going on. Too complicated. Search a 4 day split on the website.

So are your goals to solely drop fat? BTW welcome to the site.
I have been training on and off 2.5 - 3 years hence the routine. Consistency has always been an issue. I seem to gain, take a break (loose the muscle) and do something else for a while mainly due to time constraints and then pick it up again later. That should not be an issue this time around as i have talked my boss in to letting my work 0800 - 1600 giving me some more time in the evenings to train.

I have looked at 4 day splits but it's really only practical to be in the gym 3 days a week. The work outs only take an hour and i finish with 30 mins light cardio. I normally feel great after and not tired.

In what way do you think it's over complicated?
Do you think i am going to burn out with this routine? My thinking was four days rest in the week was ample to recover from it. Am i wrong?

My goal is purely fat loss at the moment. When i can see my abs i am going to adjust the diet and my routine and increase my Carbs and protein. I appreciate my abs will disappear again but hopefully i wont end up with love handles. :grin:

Thank you for the reply and for the welcome

Doctor Devious

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:45 am

brook011 wrote:Get those corn flakes out of there man. Figure a way to get yourself some oats in there. The packaging makes it sound good for you, but they're some crappy carbs.
Thanks for the advise. I thought they looked like good carbs being corn.

Whats your opinion in microwaveable rolled oats(ready break), any good or should i be looking for proper oats and cooking them on stove.

I am look at this this from a time position as well as nutrition.

Thank you

Doctor Devious


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Post by stuward » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:10 am

A good rule of thumb is that if a product makes any health claims, stay away from it. Eat real food. Real food doesn't need labels and nutrient profiles. Oats should come in a bag. You can cook them on a stove or in a microwave but avoid any oats that comes in a pouch. It takes me 2 minutes to make oats in the morning. Add fruit to your oats so you don't need sugar. I use raisins.
I thought they looked like good carbs being corn.
Corn is root of all evil. The only way you should eat corn is on the cob.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:20 am

Meal 1:
Breakfast. I have limited time in the morning and need to eat fast.
60 gms of crunchy nut corn flakes = 50gms Carbs
30 gms of protein via a shake.
zinc
omega 3 cap
vitamin b complex (Keeps me sane)
A Multivitamin for good measure
1 x pint of water.
Get rid of the corn flakes, 2-3 eggs would be a lot better.
Meal2:
Mid morning snack
I large banana = 20gms Carbs roughly
30 gm's Protein via a shake.
Ok
Meal 3:
Lunch.
1 x chicken breast, diced = 30gms protein
75 gms white rice = 57gms of carbs.
I normally mix this with balsamic dressing, pesto or whatever i can find.
No rice, veggies?
Meal 4:
Mid afternoon snack and prework out meal on training days
1 large banana = 20gms roughly
30 gms of protein via a shake
ok but same as meal 2?
on a work out day i have an after training shake
60 gms of Maltodextrin
50 gms of weigh / casein protein 65 % / 33%
Get rid of the sugar, it's pronounced 'whey.'
Meal5:
evening meal
50 gms of some Carbs potatoes, rice etc
30 gms of some protein beef, chicken ,lamb etc
sweet corn, peas, tomatoes or whatever i can find that i like,
I don't really like my veggies so don't eat to many
No, potates, rice, corn. Well you have to learn to eat veggies.


You will not lose weight that diet. You have a very high carb content, that would ok for bulking but definitely not cutting.

1) Drop the rice, corn, potatoes. You a lot of carbs/starches in there, too much for cutting.
2) Where are the healthy fats? Peanut butter, olive oil, cottage cheese?
3) You don't need that much protein
4). Whey are you using casein after your workout? Why not use it before you go to bed?

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:36 pm

on a work out day i have an after training shake
60 gms of Maltodextrin
50 gms of weigh / casein protein 65 % / 33%

Get rid of the sugar, it's pronounced 'whey.'
I am a little confused by this statement. From what i have read if you don't take on carbs after a workout the body just converts the protein to glucose or worse breaks down muscle to restore the glycogen. I also thought simple carbs were necessary to spike the insulin to shuttle the nutrients to the muscles. Would you mind explaining it please?


You will not lose weight that diet. You have a very high carb content, that would ok for bulking but definitely not cutting.
What is an ideal carb intake on a cut, lets say gm per lb or body weight?
When i was bulking i was eating about 340 gms of carbs. From what your saying that was probably way to much and you can see why i thought 200 was low.
1) Drop the rice, corn, potatoes. You a lot of carbs/starches in there, too much for cutting.
I will definitely have a look at this. If is was eating brown rice instead and a smaller portion would that be more acceptable or should i stay away from rice all together?
2) Where are the healthy fats? Peanut butter, olive oil, cottage cheese?
Understood. I will try and get some in through out the day. Mind you at 9cal a gm of fat i was a little apprehensive.
3) You don't need that much protein
I was eating excess to make up for what i thought was low carbs. From what i have read on a low carb diet excess protein gets used for energy. How much should i be eating on a cut?
4). Whey are you using casein after your workout? Why not use it before you go to bed?
The whey and casein come as a mix and it's more about money and trying to cover both angles. I appreciate it could be better.

Meals 2 and 4 are the same as i only have about 2 mins to eat in the morning and afternoon and bananas go down quick. I guess i should swap the 4th for a large apple.

Thank you for the feedback
Doctor Devious
Last edited by Doctor Devious on Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:44 pm

Corn is root of all evil. The only way you should eat corn is on the cob.
I see and i thought it was money :lol: but point taken.
Whats your opinion on fructose sugar, it's low GI. Could i cheat and use that instead of fruit.

Thanks

Doctor Devious

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Post by stuward » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:56 pm

Fructose, except when obtained through whole fruit, should be eliminated from your diet. There is no good substitute for fruit, not even juice.

Don't be overly concerned about the amount of fat. I don't mean to go crazy but fat is very filling compared to carbs. It's harder to overeat fats except when they're mixed with sugar (donuts). A high fat diet (same thing as low-carb) encourages the body to turn to fat for fuel. Once you have reached that stage, it's easier to manage your fat levels. Most of your losses at first will be water but you will see some weight loss right away. After a couple of weeks, it will be all fat loss.

Here's a post on the amount of carbs you should take in:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-prim ... continuum/
50-100 grams/day - Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss

Minimizes insulin production and ramps up fat metabolism. By meeting average daily protein requirements (.7 - 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight formula), eating nutritious vegetables and fruits (easy to stay in 50-100 gram range, even with generous servings), and staying satisfied with delicious high fat foods (meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds), you can lose one to two pounds of body fat per week and then keep it off forever by eating in the maintenance range.
Stu

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Post by Ironman » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:20 pm

Stu's got the right idea there. That link has some good information.

I also wanted to point out corn is not good no matter the form, even on the cob. It starts turning to sugar before you have even swallowed it.

Next point is that you don't need post workout carbs on a cut. Your glycogen will be replaced in time.

Some protein can be used in gluconeogenesis. However, as Stu pointed out, you body is mostly going to burn your dietary and body fat for fuel.

Carbs are not needed, unless there is some reason a quick fuel source is needed, such as bulking.


Humans aren't omnivores so much as they are carnivores that have digestive abilities allowing for greater dietary diversity. Our digestive systems are nearly identical to typical carnivores. However as a survival mechanism, we can digest many energy dense foods. Cooking and processing allowed us to increase our dietary diversity even more. Being able to eat these things helped us to survive long periods of time when there was little food. But now if we fill up on this kind of food, we will end up with way more energy than we can use. So we get fat and have various health problems due to it. Especially endocrine issues due to the fact that starches and sugars are only supposed to be a very small part of our diet, our bodies have not equipped to have that be our primary diet.

Of course changing this is easier said than done. That is because our more primitive brain areas, such as the amygdala and other parts of the limbic system, create a very strong drive to eat this stuff due to the survival value. It is then very difficult for our prefrontal cortex (the logical thinking part) to override that. In fact many times the prefrontal cortex will just make rationalizations for drives from the limbic system rather than evaluate their merit.

The only good thing is you can learn to evaluate rather then justify such drives. You will always get those urges though, because the limbic system is never going to stop wanting it.

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:30 pm

stuward wrote: Here's a post on the amount of carbs you should take in:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-prim ... continuum/
50-100 grams/day - Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss
Stu
I just read the above and it does not seem to pan out to me.

max maintenance carbs 150 = 600 calories
1gm or protein as an average daily requirement which for me is 168gms = 672 calories

Total = 1272 calories

The calorie calculator on the this site says i need for 16 hours very light activity and 8 resting:
1737 BMR
579 activity calories
Total = 2316

Total calories required minus total calories from carbs and protein is:
2316-
1272
Total = 1044 calories.

Does this mean i am supposed to be getting 1044 calories from fat. That's 116 gms of fat Thats hard to believe.

If i have read this wrong please point me on the right path.

Doctor Devious

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Post by stuward » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:46 pm

That's right. There's nothing wrong with getting 40-60% of your calories from fat.

For example I eat about this each day:

Food Amount Calories from fat
Olive oil 2 oz 504
Almonds 4 oz 164
Eggs 4 168
Fish oil 6 g 54
Grass fed beef 8 oz 206
Total 1096

This varies of course. I try to get fish about every 2 days.
Last edited by stuward on Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Doctor Devious » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:00 pm

stuward wrote:That's right. There's nothing wrong with getting 40-60% of your calories from fat.
I have read loads of articles and mostly i see 40% carbs 40% protein and 20% fat. Is this a new way of thinking about our nutrition?

What i am finding hard here is i am being told different to what i am sure was right. I don't just read one article and take it as gospel i always cross reference and am a little perturbed my facts may be wrong.

Have you any links to information sources i can have a read though?

Regards
Doctor Devious

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Post by stuward » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:05 pm

I've already linked to Mark's daily apple. Also read:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://freetheanimal.com/
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

There are lots more that support this kind of eating. I'm sure Ironman has more.


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