Too much fat in diet?

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frogbyte
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Post by frogbyte » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:36 pm

Most of those links seem to be making hand-waving claims, with no clinical trial data cited to back it up.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/106/21/2747 however does go into detail - >3 g is noted for an increased incidence of bleeding. After reading that article I'm inclined to perhaps up my dosage of fish oil capsules to 3g.

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Post by Jebus » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:21 pm

AHA is a joke lol. I dont know If they did that study themselves because I couldnt read it, I don't have acrobat or w/e.

But anyway the AHA Strongly recommends eating low fat diets and avoiding saturated fats.

Personally i don't listen to These "Health Experts" No matter what they say.

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:12 am

frogbyte wrote:Most of those links seem to be making hand-waving claims, with no clinical trial data cited to back it up.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/106/21/2747 however does go into detail - >3 g is noted for an increased incidence of bleeding. After reading that article I'm inclined to perhaps up my dosage of fish oil capsules to 3g.

What the hell are you talking about.

http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter3_1.html
"In a landmark study, Japanese researchers have discovered the leadings cause of westernized degenerative diseases in Japan, if not in the world. Their work has gone far to confirm the landslide of emerging scientific research which is beginning to reveal that the genesis of degenerative diseases is owed to a drastic reduction in the ingestion of Omega 3 in relation to increased ingestion of Omega 6. Their findings came after an exhaustive review of over 500 peer-reviewed studies and after accounting for all known and suspected causes for degenerative illnesses. Perhaps having the most impact are the words of the Japanese researchers themselves excreted from the study summary:"

Besides that the AHA doesn't know it's ass from a hole in the ground. They give Cherios their seal of approval.

frogbyte
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Post by frogbyte » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:37 am

I'm already on board for O-3, it's just a question of how much.

Mentioning the existence of studies doesn't seem very compelling - I'd rather see data correlating O-3 levels with disease incidence. And since that website is in the business of selling O-3, I'd tend to be skeptical of them as well.

Perhaps this warrants a Poll... how much O-3 does everyone take?

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stuward
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Post by stuward » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:58 am

I'd rather see data correlating O-3 levels with disease incidence.


I've read a fair bit on O3 and the studies just aren't there yet. A ratio greater than 4:1 O6:O3 is definately cause for concern. A ratio of better than 1:1 is impractical but may be desirable. 2:1 seems to support health and is easily achievable. No one has ever indicated any adverse reaction to too much O3 except for thinning of the blood, and then it's only becasue they took asprin with it. Some people advocate large qtys (10-20g) for fat loss since it has the effect of raising metabolism. Fish oil appears to have less mercury than whole fish so it may be a healthier source. I still prefer real fish due to the protein, calcium, vitamin D and who knows what else that you get from real fish. It may be more important to lower O6 than to raise O3.

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Post by Jebus » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:56 pm

imagine we don't even need O6, or very little of it lol?

And a better ratio would be like 1:2 (O6-O3)

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Post by stuward » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:04 am

Jebus wrote:imagine we don't even need O6, or very little of it lol?

And a better ratio would be like 1:2 (O6-O3)
We do need some, about 3g/day. There's a little bit in almost everything so you get it without trying. It was actually recognized as the first "essential" fat.

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:03 am

frogbyte wrote:I'm already on board for O-3, it's just a question of how much.

Mentioning the existence of studies doesn't seem very compelling - I'd rather see data correlating O-3 levels with disease incidence. And since that website is in the business of selling O-3, I'd tend to be skeptical of them as well.

Perhaps this warrants a Poll... how much O-3 does everyone take?
I mentioned studies because you were complaining their weren't any. I'm not even completely sure what you're even talking about now. Is it not ratios now? Is it how much total?

There aren't studies yet one total, but think about it, primitive man lived on grass fed herbivores. They would have been full of omega 3. You can also look at the Inuits. Those people eat nothing but fish and whale blubber sometimes. They seem to be quite healthy unless they start eating a modern diet.

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Post by frogbyte » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:05 am

Well my concern is that taking large amounts of O3 extract would have side effects that do not exist when eating large amounts of grass-fed herbivore flesh. I try to eat grass-fed meat whenever possible - I'm not worried about getting too much O-3 from meat.

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:24 am

frogbyte wrote:Well my concern is that taking large amounts of O3 extract would have side effects that do not exist when eating large amounts of grass-fed herbivore flesh. I try to eat grass-fed meat whenever possible - I'm not worried about getting too much O-3 from meat.
There is no difference. Nothing at all is done to it. It is just extracted. It is not synthesized from chemicals or anything.

It's like enjoying whole chicken, but being worried about eating too many wings.

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Post by frogbyte » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:54 pm

Well, searching around some people claim the fish oil is even safer since the Mercury can be tested and extracted somehow...

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:32 pm

So, the worries about bleeding.... Is that a theoretical concern, or have real-life events been documented?

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stuward
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Post by stuward » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:16 am

In my layman's opinion, it seems to be mostly theoretical but there is enough concern that an interaction between O3 and asprin needs to be considered. Both are proven to thin the blood and the affect is additive.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... shoil.html
Omega-3 fatty acids may increase the risk of bleeding, although there is little evidence of significant bleeding risk at lower doses. Very large intakes of fish oil/omega-3 fatty acids ("Eskimo" amounts) may increase the risk of hemorrhagic (bleeding) stroke. High doses have also been associated with nosebleed and blood in the urine. Fish oils appear to decrease platelet aggregation and prolong bleeding time, increase fibrinolysis (breaking down of blood clots), and may reduce von Willebrand factor. Fish oil should be used cautiously in patients with abnormal heart rhythms (ventricular tachycardia).
http://www.igan.ca/id67.htm
Interaction with NSAIDs. There is one specific drug interaction that needs to be considered. Fish oil may enhance anti-platelet action of Aspirin and other NSAID's ( COX-1 type, Ibuprofen, others). Therefore, use of fish oil together with aspirin (especially daily low dose as used to prevent strokes and heart attacks) may be harmful. As with everything else you may read on this website, the decision to use fish oil or not in combination with these drugs must be taken by patient and nephrologist together, weighing potential risk and potential benefits. There cannot be a blanket recommendation that applies to everyone.

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