Too much fat in diet?

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frogbyte
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Post by frogbyte » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:38 am

There have been specific studies on the 1g range with respect to reducing inflammation, they're on the news all the time. But enormous quantities of any anti-inflammatory seems dangerous. Just because 80 mg of aspirin a day reduces risk of heart attack doesn't mean 80,000 mg is better. I'd want to see evidence of a benefit before taking the risk.

KPj
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Post by KPj » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:13 pm

I don't believe most that I see on TV, especially when they talk about nutrition. If I believed what the mainstream media told me, I would double, maybe treble the amount of carbs I eat, and have about 30%of the protein I eat, 'cause, you know, it makes you fat and destroys your kidneys and all that saturated fat in meat will destroy my heart. I would change my training from low rep heavy stuff to high rep light stuff, do some aerobics, and bounce around on stability balls and vibrating plat forms, because, 'research' has shown these things to give you a much better work out...

On a half serious note - I done a search on the PN forums for 'fish oil dosage' and loads of results came up, complete with references. Done one on Google Scholar and loads of results came up, a lot of them seemed to be on people with athritus, but I only glanced, really - do some searches, have a look through them, see what you find. Personally I don't need any convincing.

I can't help but wonder what's wrong with the 'credibility' of a recommendation from Precision Nutrition/Berardi, who actually do a lot of research themselves... Not to mention the likes of Charles Poliquin (30-45g / day!) - guys that, day in, day out, make people stronger, bigger, leaner, healthier, or whatever, and have done so for years.

I do feel that people can get far too caught up on the 'research' (whatever they define that as).

Also, when was the last time you were drunk? I hope you checked the research before you consumed excessive amounts of alcohol. When was the last time you had a Pizza? Excessive carbs? Did you check the research before hand? Fish oil is just fat, it's not like it's morphine, you know....

My opinions is basically this - 10g of fishoil is far from excessive. If you're going to ponder what excessive amounts of it do, you first need to define what excessive is.

KPj

frogbyte
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Post by frogbyte » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:26 pm

Well I'd be much less worried about consuming massive quantities of fish than fish extract. Extracts are unnatural, so they warrant research IMO. Natural food is much less concerning.

If he's been taking 30g/day of omega 3 for years and hasn't died of a brain hemorrhage yet, I guess 6g sounds less scary than it would otherwise.

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Post by Rik-Blades » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:25 pm

I found this site:

http://www.naturalphysiques.com/tools.php?itemid=21

It has a calculator at the bottom to determine your suggested daily intake of 'healthy fats'. Mine came out at a whopping 70 grams! Doesn't state what % of this is actually O 3?

Surely there should be a way to calculate aprox intake of O 6 from unprocessed food and add a balance of O 3?

Not that I need convincing, I've been taking 6g of O 3 for months (almost a year) and my wife is always amazed at how quickly I clot, heal and recover. My blood pressure is spot on..it used to be a bit high.

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Post by frogbyte » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:47 pm

Poor guy - what is your wife doing to you?

I dunno - Charles Poliquin's statement anecdotally means it probably won't kill you, but I'd still want to see evidence it's actually useful.

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Post by KPj » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:09 am

I'm pretty sure fish oil is one of the most researched supps out their, besides creatine. Just dig around, you'll find something. There's loads of research on it, showing various benefits.

KPj

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:13 am

frogbyte wrote:Well I'd be much less worried about consuming massive quantities of fish than fish extract. Extracts are unnatural, so they warrant research IMO. Natural food is much less concerning.

If he's been taking 30g/day of omega 3 for years and hasn't died of a brain hemorrhage yet, I guess 6g sounds less scary than it would otherwise.
Hemlock is natural. This whole natural/unnatural thing is one big fallacy. Besides that fish oil is not artificially produced. It is just separated. Even if it was made from chemicals that doesn't say anything about safety.

What does say something about safety is the fact that it is 100% fats that we need. There has been plenty of research on the topic.

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Post by KPj » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:08 am

Please help, My son has an addiction to Fish Oil capsules. He doesn't speak to us anymore, and is always out late, getting fish oiled out his brain. He's became aggressive and doesn't clean his room when told to do so. Now, he even has a criminal record - Possession of Fish Oil. He insists it's not a problem and he has it under control but he's a completely different person. I'm concerned. We already lost his elderly brother, who got 10years for Possession of Protein Powder with Intent to Supply.

Fish Oil is ruining our lives. What should we do?

Answer - Call our "Is Fish Oil Destroying your Family" hotline.

(Sorry, couldn't resist :grin:)

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Post by Rik-Blades » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:29 am

KPj wrote:Please help, My son has an addiction to Fish Oil capsules. He doesn't speak to us anymore, and is always out late, getting fish oiled out his brain. He's became aggressive and doesn't clean his room when told to do so. Now, he even has a criminal record - Possession of Fish Oil. He insists it's not a problem and he has it under control but he's a completely different person. I'm concerned. We already lost his elderly brother, who got 10years for Possession of Protein Powder with Intent to Supply.

Fish Oil is ruining our lives. What should we do?

Answer - Call our "Is Fish Oil Destroying your Family" hotline.
It's what fish oil abuse leads to though!
Sure, it starts out as a little fish oil now and then, but soon they start looking at food labels and refusing to eat what we put on the table. Many I know have started to lose weight, bumps start to appear on the lower torso and they start talking to strangers at the local leisure centre.... :green:

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Post by frogbyte » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:30 am

Ironman wrote:
frogbyte wrote:Well I'd be much less worried about consuming massive quantities of fish than fish extract. Extracts are unnatural, so they warrant research IMO. Natural food is much less concerning.

If he's been taking 30g/day of omega 3 for years and hasn't died of a brain hemorrhage yet, I guess 6g sounds less scary than it would otherwise.
Hemlock is natural. This whole natural/unnatural thing is one big fallacy. Besides that fish oil is not artificially produced. It is just separated. Even if it was made from chemicals that doesn't say anything about safety.

What does say something about safety is the fact that it is 100% fats that we need. There has been plenty of research on the topic.
That's a strawman. Hemlock is natural, but it's not natural in the context of it being a food. Humans have not been living off eating hemlock for 10,000 years. Humans have been living off eating fish for that long or longer.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:34 pm

frogbyte wrote:
Ironman wrote:
frogbyte wrote:Well I'd be much less worried about consuming massive quantities of fish than fish extract. Extracts are unnatural, so they warrant research IMO. Natural food is much less concerning.

If he's been taking 30g/day of omega 3 for years and hasn't died of a brain hemorrhage yet, I guess 6g sounds less scary than it would otherwise.
Hemlock is natural. This whole natural/unnatural thing is one big fallacy. Besides that fish oil is not artificially produced. It is just separated. Even if it was made from chemicals that doesn't say anything about safety.

What does say something about safety is the fact that it is 100% fats that we need. There has been plenty of research on the topic.
That's a strawman. Hemlock is natural, but it's not natural in the context of it being a food. Humans have not been living off eating hemlock for 10,000 years. Humans have been living off eating fish for that long or longer.
Well if the argument is just, natural is good, which it seems to be, then it is not a strawman.

Now if the argument is natural stuff we normally consume. Then I guess I could see that being a strawman. It is purely unintentional though. So hemlock comment withdrawn.

However this whole thing, pointing out a possible strawman is, itself a red herring. It does not alter the fact that weather something is natural or not says nothing about it's safety. The rest of the argument stands without the gratuitous hemlock comment.

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Post by frogbyte » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:39 am

The concern is that food extracts may not always be as safe or beneficial as the original food. I do take fish oil, but I'd want to see some evidence to justify upping the dosage as much as some people apparently have.

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Post by KPj » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:46 am

Look for the evidence then.......

Just a thought....

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Post by frogbyte » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:52 am

Well, I did, and found none.

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Post by KPj » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55 am

frogbyte wrote:Well, I did, and found none.
Is that, none saying it's good for you, or, none saying it's bad for you?

By all means, don't 'risk it' you know....

KPj

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