Page 1 of 1

Animal Stak and Pak....

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:34 pm
by Halfbreed
Googled these products for reviews, and it was mixed. Animal Stak, and Animal Pak....this big fella I know said that if I were going to take any one product as a supplement, take Animal Stak....any experience on these two products from any of you?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:54 pm
by hoosegow
I've tried all kinds of different crap. I'm convinced the only thing that works is food (include protein), creatine, and vitamins and minerals. When I was heavy into trying different supplements I remember reading about the two. I'm relying on faded memory here, but I just bought my own supplements and stacked them myself. Actually, what I did is researched each of the ingredients in Animal Stak. The ones that showed some evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, to work, I bought them. It was tons cheaper that way.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:55 pm
by hoosegow
Oh, and I don't think most of the crap worked.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:27 pm
by Halfbreed
I believe, after doing some more research, i found out that Animal Stak had Andros in it....that is, prohormones, basically over the counter steroids...tons of possible side effects although they put Estrogen and DHT blockers in the stak. the animal pak is basically just a multivitamin with aminos, from what I can tell.

I've gotten strong thus far without supplements, but I'd like to take supplements for two reasons. One, to protect my body. I put a huge pounding on it with the weights, and the extra nutrition should help. Two, I don't want to have to eat as much food as I would need without supplements because A.) my stomach can't take that much food and I have a "zipper" down the front of my stomach from surgery after getting shot multiple times, and B.) there is too much crap I would be getting from the food that is bad for my body just to try and get enough protein etc.

right now I take Optimum Whey and Cell-tech. I may just stick with that and stay away from the other crap.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:02 pm
by hoosegow
FWIW, I think you are wasting your money on Cell Tech. Just buy creatine in bulk. It works just as well.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm
by Jebus
yo Halfbreed whats it like? getting shot? I've always wondered lol

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:34 pm
by TimD
Not Halfbreed, and was geting ready to delete ths post of yours. What in the hell are your thinking of asking someone how they felt when they were shot? I took 4 AK-47 rounds back in 1970, Republic of Vietnam, and it isn't something you want to experience. If I ever see another question like that, with an LOL involved, that person will be banned.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:23 am
by Jungledoc
YES! Thanks, Tim. I was about to speak up when I saw that. That was about as tacky as you can get.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:44 am
by Halfbreed
First....Tim, I'm not a guy that usually lets people fight my battles for me, but I know it really ain't even about me - it's about your site, and I'm good with it.

Second, I'm not sure the differences in creatine, and to be honest, I kind of take it like a joke I heard one time talking about how a guy prays "just in case." That is, I'm not sure how well anything works - or if it works at all - but I take it "just in case." I DID gain 8 lbs. in lean weight using muscletech products, and my strength HAS gone up, I just don't know if it's regular gains or what? Some family that came in said they definately noticed a difference, but it's hard to tell for me as I look at myself every day in a little plastic mirror or the odd window that gets a good reflection.

Anyway, I agree, getting shot isn't something that one would want to experience, and especially in circumstances like Tim was in. I was shot 9 times with the standard 9mm glock police carry. I've heard that since then they have moved up to .40's and .45's, and I'm very glad that change happened after my experience. My respects, by the way, Tim.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:08 am
by hoosegow
That is kind of what I am saying Halfbreed. There isn't really a big difference in creatine. It all basically works the same way. I'm not saying the CellTech doesn't work. In fact it does because of the creatine. My only thing is why pay extra money for it if you can get the same results cheaper somewhere else?

And agreed. Tremedous respect to all those who are/were in the service.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:19 am
by Halfbreed
So what's a good monohydrate that is less expensive, and how long will it last? I pay $47.00 for 7lbs of the Cell-Tech, and I get generally about 2 months worth of use out of it, taking two scoop servings....sometimes it goes a little further. I'm a shopper, so I'm all about bargain, but at the same time, I'm the type of guy who won't pay a dime for something if it's worthless....I like quality, but I will put in the time to find quality that is less expensive.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:27 pm
by hoosegow
Vitamin Shoppe has there generic for 19.99 for about 900 grams ... id=VS-1337
Biotest has theirs for 12.95 for 500 grams;jse ... id=1075898

For what it is worth, I like Biotest's because it seems to mix better.

You can do the do the math to figure out how long it will last you. Cell Tech has 10 grams of their creatine formula for two scoops. Following that line of recommendation, 500 grams will last you 50 days if you take 10 grams per day. So for the same price you are paying for Cell Tech, you can get 2000 grams of creatine from Biotest which will last you 200 days.

For 12.95, give it a try and see if you see a drop off in the weight you move.

For your information, just to avoid any issue, it is a pure white granulated powder.

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:59 pm
by Halfbreed
I may just do that, thanks. Another guy in here has the plain creatine, but he isn't getting any stronger at all....granted, he doesn't do what he should elsewhere, he is mostly in there for ego, and he doesn't like to think a whole lot. I've lifted with him before, and it ends up just frustrating me because he gets upset when he can't lift as much as me and will refuse to go to lower weights that will still push him, and will contiune higher even if he can't get one rep by himself.... :mad: Either that or he will salvage his ego and go WAY too light so he can "look good" :neu: by not failing. Anyway, I'm off the point....I'll try it out, let you know how it works out in comparison once I finish my tub of Cell Tech.

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:10 am
by ironmaiden708
1). Don't buy muscletech products especially celltech. Sugar and creatine. You could make a for effective creatine products for less than half the price.
I guarantee you could have gained that 8 pounds without muscletech products.
2). These products with 'andros' inside of them. I've had personal experiance with the prohormones and their effects are nothing short of incredible. But the animal stak you are looking at was discontinued, now they came out with m-stak which is pretty much useless.
3). Buy a tub of micronized creatine mono and be on your way, there is nothing better.

For information on creatine I'll post up my faq in here:
What is creatine?
Creatine is an organic acid that is used as the initial energy source for muscles. It provides explosive energy that is the primary fuel while weightlifting and during other activities that require short bursts of energy.

Why supplement with creatine?
When you supplement with creatine basically you are adding extra fuel into the tank. You will be able to get a few extra reps in with exercises which will in turn put more stress on the muscle fibers and ultimately build muscle faster.

What does creatine do for you physiologically?
The only thing creatine does is it allows for you to have a prolonged power output (aka more reps). There are NO magic abilities when it comes to creatine. So that means no pumps, no increase in energy levels, no immediate increases in strength, doesn't directly increase muscle mass, you won't be able to fly or lift a car over your head, etc. If you think you are achieving any of those feats listed then either you have a gimmicky creatine matrix that has other compounds like stimulants packed inside of it or it's all in your head.

Does our body already make creatine?
Of course, on a daily basis we naturally produce about 3g.

What creatine should I buy? Which one is the best?
Well it isn't a trivial task but supplement companies love to pump out garbage on the market and all claims to be the best which can make it difficult for consumers to make a decision. I as many other members would recommend a tub Micronized Creatine Monohydrate. Most economical and smartest choice, no need for precursors, sugars, vitamins, etc.

Is creatine similar to steroids?
No, not at all. Ignorant morons like to use this to their defense as to why they are against its use even though it's blatantly false. Some so called 'experts' who think that they know it all will compare creatine to steroids, he's the same guy who thinks to build big biceps takes doing tons of bicep curls and/or does stability training.

Does creatines effectiveness diminish over time?
Not a chance, this is somewhat intertwined with the arguement that creatine is similar to steroids. As I said before it isn't similar to steroids in any way. Creatines effect on the body never changes, your body doesn't adapt to creatine the same way as your body does with certain steroids. You would be dead, life in animals/mammals/etc would be nonexistant without creatine, why adapt to something your body requires to keep functioning.

How should I take it?
Take it every day, on days where you workout take it post workout either mix it in with your protein shake or put a serving size in your mouth (usually 2-5g) and wash it down with your shake. On non workout days take in the morning when your body is in a hypersensitive state. You technically don't need to go off creatine. Your body doesn't adapt to its effects like steroids or other chemicals.

Any benefits of taking with a simple sugar?
The concept is that you spike your insulin with a simple sugar like dextrose, maltodextrin, etc; it makes for a shuttling effect for the creatine. If there is a benefit it isn't significant enough to make a difference. This doesn't hold true for supplemental insulin.

What do you think of protein-creatine matrixes out on the market?
Well if you manage to find a matrix that has a high quality whey or casein protein and is mixed with micronized creatine then I'm all for it. Chances of finding that though are next to 0%. Buy a separate tub of creatine and whey, get exactly what you want and is usually cheaper taking that route.

Creatine Monohydrate (CM) vs. Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE):
CEE is a newer creatine on the market, it is supposedly better than CM since it absorbs better. Well it does absorb better into the bloodstream but the fatal flaw with CEE is that it doesn't assimilate into the muscles better, it's actually worse than CM. You will reap greater benefits from CM vs. CEE.

I heard that they had a breakthrough and found that Creatine Phosphoglucophagiotydalate is the greatest/best creatine out on the market, what do you guys think?
First off that's not an actual form of creatine, there are many different forms I'm sure we will see many more in the future. None of these other forms have been through the same rigorous testing/studying as CM and haven’t been clinically proven to be any better. The supplement market is not regulated by the FDA which makes for a playground for companies to make any claim(s) they want.

Do I need to load creatine?
NO! Taking 20 grams per day is not only incredibly wasteful but adds unnecessary stress to your kidneys. Go with your serving (normally 5g) of creatine per day and you are set to go. The one downside is it will take longer for your muscles to become fully loaded with creatine but since you will stay on creatine for months at a time you will hit 100% saturation no matter which route you choose.

Mixing Caffeine and Creatine?
Supposedly mixing creatine and caffeine such as taking it with your morning coffee is a poor combination since caffeine counteracts the effects of creatine. The issue with this topic is that it is poorly studied and hasn't been shown to have any conclusive evidence supporting the claim.

Side effects?
None that have been clinically shown but it has been reported where people can get a stomach ache, low leg pain, and most commonly bloating (edema). Supposedly it can cause renal failure but like steroids I'm sure the issue is blown way out of proportion and isn't backed by any data. As a precautionary measure though people who do have kidney disease shouldn't supplement with creatine.

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:05 pm
by robertscott
good lad for posting the creatine FAQ, that's some useful info