Does organic=good and pasteurization=bad?

Rucifer · Post by **Rucifer** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:09 pm

#1-With all nurtitionists touting organic, I wonder how much better it really is? I don't doubt it could be better, since hearing about some pesticides is downright scary, but is it really worth the 3...4...sometimes even 5 times the price cost when your at the store? Is normal produce really that bad? (I am not including meat in this paragraph).

#2- I have heard a lot lately about organic meat. What exactly makes meat organic? The mere fact the cows weren't given drugs? They weren't kept in little teeny tiny cages? I'm really confused.

#3- Another thing I've read in a couple of different places is that pasteurization is a bad thing. People are recommending drinking raw milk. From what I've read on pasteurization it's similar to cooking your food, but its for liquid instead. Is there any merit that pasteurization is actually bad?

I came here with this cause I trust you guys over most random internet sources. Can't seem to get a straight answer.

Post by **stuward** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:32 pm

The term "Organic" has been bastardized by big business and it's not what it once was. What you should be doing is eating locally produced veg and meats from small farmers that farm using traditional methods. These types of farmers are usually represented at farmer's markets. Pasteurization changes the milk is subtle ways to make it something other than an unprocessed product. Whether it's terrible of not, I can't say. Everything I have access to is pasteurized anyway.

Jebus · Post by **Jebus** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:04 pm

Organic meat is from animals that have been raised withought antibiotics, or anything that the animal would not have taken, have it been born and raised wild.

Some farmers like to produce more by feeding thier cows grains instead of letting them eat grass and keeping them in cages. Not sure exactly about the cages, maybe so they burn less calories and gain more weight.

Rucifer · Post by **Rucifer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:46 am

stuward wrote:The term "Organic" has been bastardized by big business and it's not what it once was. What you should be doing is eating locally produced veg and meats from small farmers that farm using traditional methods. These types of farmers are usually represented at farmer's markets. Pasteurization changes the milk is subtle ways to make it something other than an unprocessed product. Whether it's terrible of not, I can't say. Everything I have access to is pasteurized anyway.

I've been meaning to check out a farmer's market, it seems like the kind of thing I would enjoy. Unfortunately the two I know that always operate just ended. Next year when they start back up I am sure I'll be there every sat.

Same here. I would have no idea where to buy raw milk anyhow.

Rucifer · Post by **Rucifer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:50 am

Jebus wrote:Organic meat is from animals that have been raised withought antibiotics, or anything that the animal would not have taken, have it been born and raised wild.

Some farmers like to produce more by feeding thier cows grains instead of letting them eat grass and keeping them in cages. Not sure exactly about the cages, maybe so they burn less calories and gain more weight.

I think your exactly right bout the cages dude. Damn factory farming. Seriously, if we were all still hunting there would be no animal cruelty except from serial killers perhaps. Life would just be a lot less convenient.

ninjackn · Post by **ninjackn** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:53 am

1) Organic is no more nutritious than it's non-organic counter parts.

Organic *might* contain less pesticides BUT the term has been bastardized so much (at least on the us) that it might not be as natural as you think. There's a ton of regulations and fine print around organic so I don't know the exact details, only enough to be dangerous. I mean I've read that something can be "95% organic" and be considered "organic" in the US.

Also, somethings don't need to be organic. You don't eat the skin and it's super thick so nothing really gets in. I'd paint a banana and still eat it.

Another problem with the term "organic" in the US is that it's slowly been ingrained into our heads that organic means "premium", which it doesn't.

2) Again the organic meat think in the US is surrounded by fine print and stuff I don't care to read.

3) Pasteurization is not bad and anyone who claims so is a nut job. Yes it changes the product but I'd rather get less nutrition out of my milk than full nutrition and something like E coli. or salmonella. Pasteurization also makes food available to more people, less bacteria in milk and eggs means it will last longer in the fridge and do better in transportation.

Post by **Ironman** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:13 am

It was on an episode of "bull$h1t!".

http://www.tv.com/penn-and-teller-bulls ... st;summary

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:19 am

The raw milk people tend to be politically motivated because they think raw milk tastes better. Milk has too much sugar anyway - best to avoid it. Incidentally I have had raw milk aged cheese (which is apparently legal in the US, unlike raw milk) and it was good, but nothing extraordinary.

Obviously organic is better for you. Look at all the warnings on a can of RAID. Do you want to spray it on your food and then try to wash it off?

aman · Post by **aman** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:50 am

According to Ayruveda:
Pasteurized milk is toxic; in fact for that matter any processed food is toxic in nature. Best way recommended is getting the raw milk, boil it and let it cool to room temperature. Add some cardamon or cinnmon to it.
This is the best way to consumeyour milk.

If you want to know more, you may read some books by David Frawley: very famous ayruveda doctor from US.

ninjackn · Post by **ninjackn** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:33 pm

aman wrote:According to Ayruveda:
Pasteurized milk is toxic; in fact for that matter any processed food is toxic in nature. Best way recommended is getting the raw milk, boil it and let it cool to room temperature. Add some cardamon or cinnmon to it.
This is the best way to consumeyour milk.

If you want to know more, you may read some books by David Frawley: very famous ayruveda doctor from US.

WTF. Boiling milk IS pasteurizing it. The majority of pasteurization techniques in the US involves a changing 3 variables: temperature, pressure and time. I don't see how any of those things can make milk toxic if done properly.

Okay sure, in some countries they irradiate milk but it's not like it's radioactive to the point where it's hazardous. I wouldn't be surprised if something like a fire alarm emits more radiation than milk you can buy.

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:51 pm

They mean toxic from a religious/spiritual perspective.

Post by **Jungledoc** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:01 pm

aman wrote:According to Ayruveda:
Pasteurized milk is toxic; in fact for that matter any processed food is toxic in nature. Best way recommended is getting the raw milk, boil it and let it cool to room temperature. Add some cardamon or cinnmon to it.
This is the best way to consumeyour milk.

If you want to know more, you may read some books by David Frawley: very famous ayruveda doctor from US.

Boiling milk would affect it more than commercial pasteurization, which only raises the temp to about 60 degrees celcius, then cools it quickly. If this makes milk toxic, then my mother would have killed me with all the warm milk she fed me to treat all my childhood illnesses!

aman · Post by **aman** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:08 am

Hi Jungledoc,

sorry , i guess i should have clarified the 'toxic' part little more.

Here toxic means more by 'nature' not be its 'content' or to be more precise - it becomes toxic after consumption.

Doc, i always felt amalgamation of ayruveda and allopathy would cure most diseases of the world. Please find time to read this book online :

"Ayurvedic healing: a comprehensive guide " by David Frawley.

He was also a doc like fron US went on to pursue ayruveda in India.

Link is below:

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=gDNn ... q=&f=false

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Jebus · Post by **Jebus** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:03 pm

lol ayurveda. Doesn't ayurveda say that wheat is good and that because it's sweet it cools the body?

And that we all have doshas like pitta vata and kapha?

aman · Post by **aman** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:17 am

Hi Jebus,

its relative, - whats good for one , is not so good for the other.
Cooling is good for pitta but bad for Kapha.
Its important for everyone to understand their constitution.

We need to know this system to appreciate or Criticize it.