anyone else a vegetarian?

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velink
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Post by velink » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:06 am

well, I do take dairy products and eggs, but I don't track my calories. As what I understand, there is no malnutrition simptoms (thank god) and the eggs and the milk is something I add in this year.

I see now it's a bit foolish of being skeptic about doing exercise alone will set me to weight gain goal. I try to eat as much these couple of months and let you guys see how it goes.


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Post by Ironman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:16 am

velink wrote:OK, I first read about Matt Roberts' book and doing the three part workout, which is jogging, exercise, stretch to put it simple.

Then on the exercise part, I do crunches, pushups, dumbell curl, wrist curl, reverse wrist curl, bend over row, etc.

I stopped for half a year and only begin around january. The muscle get stiff, but not growing. Instead, my body weight is dropping.

My reason for being vegetarian is solely for the benefit of health.

There is no benefit to health being a vegetarian. You need meat, as you have discovered from your problems.
The fat=bad, idea was 100% pure BS. Are you with me on the fat or do you need links?
Do you know about the human digestive system being virtually identical to any typical carnivore digestive system?
Did you also know that there is some proof that grains have harmful effects?

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Post by Jungledoc » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:47 am

velink wrote:well, I do take dairy products and eggs, but I don't track my calories. As what I understand, there is no malnutrition simptoms (thank god) and the eggs and the milk is something I add in this year.

I see now it's a bit foolish of being skeptic about doing exercise alone will set me to weight gain goal. I try to eat as much these couple of months and let you guys see how it goes.
If you want to build a house, it doesn't matter how frantically you hammer and saw if you are out of building materials. You just won't get anything built. If you have a good supply of materials, but you are lazy and just sit around, the house won't get built, and your yard will just get filled up with the building materials. If you have a steady supply of building materials and you work hard, the house will get built. The house is your muscle. The material is food. The yard is your fat stores.

If you eat and don't exercise you get fat. If you exercise and don't eat you lose your fat stores. When they are depleted you will start using muscle just for fuel to keep going.

I agree with Ironman that there is no particular health benefit in vegetarian eating. For people who have some other reason to eat vegetarian (religion, tradition, or you hate the idea of hurting the furry little animals) you can get adequate protein from vegetable sources, but it takes lots of work, time and energy, and you'd have to be very well-informed about the amino acid composition of different foods. It's not worth it to me, and I love meat. I certainly don't think meat is any less healthful than eggs (I eat lots of both), but if you really don't want to eat meat, eggs are a good substitute. Protein supplements like whey powder would help, too. Oh, I forgot that you don't use supplements because you eat organic. There must be organic whey powder out there somewhere! Drink milk. Whole milk, because you need the calories. Of course, you will get some fat.

From what you have said, you would be much healthier if you were to eat meat. You clearly need more calories, and you need more protein.

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Post by Jungledoc » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:58 am

velink wrote:OK, I first read about Matt Roberts' book and doing the three part workout, which is jogging, exercise, stretch to put it simple.

Then on the exercise part, I do crunches, pushups, dumbell curl, wrist curl, reverse wrist curl, bend over row, etc.

I stopped for half a year and only begin around january. The muscle get stiff, but not growing. Instead, my body weight is dropping.

My reason for being vegetarian is solely for the benefit of health.
The exercise you are doing is not likely to build much muscle, even if you start eating more. You name 6 exercises, and 3 of them are curls. These work some of the smallest muscles in the body. Crunches don't build much of anything--even for the "core" there are better exercises. Pushups and rows are good, compound exercises, and I'm glad you are doing them. But they work only 2 of the motions of the shoulder. The rows help your upper back, but you mention nothing else that helps all of those huge muscles (or potentially huge) muscles of your back, none for your lower back. And the quads, hams and glutes, which represent a very large percentage of the muscle tissue in your body, are not even invited to your exercise party! They feel left out.

Get a real, basic workout plan, like any of the ones listed in the sticky in the "General" forum, and start doing them as they are designed. They were designed by people who are smarter than you and me. And quit jogging, for goodness sake! What good is that doing you? Burning more of your depleted stores of nutrients, not making you stronger, not making you more "fit."

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Post by pdellorto » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:05 am

Bill Pearl was famously a vegetarian, but he was lacto-ovo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Pearl

That was also after his competitive days. I recall his book Getting Stronger has a section on vegetarian bodybuilding. So it's doable, but it's not as easy as for the steak-and-eggs guys.


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Post by Jungledoc » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:25 am

Well, I was trying real hard not to actually say "steak and eggs" because it's been a few hours since I ate, and I'm due for "Meal 6," but I really shouldn't suck in too many calories because this isn't workout day and, like the OP I'm on a weight loss program, and unlike the OP I'm really trying to lose weight, so I have to be careful, and the Chinese take-out I had for supper (aka "Meal 5") is now a sweet memory (yes, I said Chinese take-out, and yes, I still live in the highlands of PNG, but our friends came home from the coast today, driving through the city of Goroka, 4 hours to the east of us, which has the only Chinese take-out place in the highlands, and it's our tradition that when either of us goes through there we bring back food to share with the other family, and yes, if you pack a cooler chest full of hot chinese food, it will actually stay fairly warm for 4 hours) and now I'm hungry for a rare, juicy sirloin served up next to a couple of sunny-side up eggs with the yolk just runny enough to mix with the hash browns, so I'm not going to enjoy my fruit and peanut butter as much as I would have otherwise, and it's all your fault.

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Post by velink » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:05 am

Thanks for the advice and it helps a lot.

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Post by velink » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:11 am

one more thing, if I don't jog, what are the other activities that I can do to warm up besides rope jumping?

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Post by stuward » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:43 am

velink wrote:one more thing, if I don't jog, what are the other activities that I can do to warm up besides rope jumping?
I do sit ups and back extentions, then light sets of my lifts.

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Post by tyler » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:01 am

I just want to throw in my two cents here as well, since it seems that most people on here are very anti vegetarian.

To whomever said that human digestion is like that of carnivore, all I have to say is hah. We are much more like herbivores with our anatomy...but we do have some small characteristics of a carnivore, which would seem to support the idea of a omnivore, but with perhaps more of an emphasis on plant foods.

And for those who think its hard to get calories on a vegetarian or vegan diet, I say another hah. A good friend of mine is a vegan and one of the strongest guys i know. They just have to eat smart...as nuts, beans, some grains and vegetables are some of the most calorie dense foods with plenty of protein. The problem is usually more with iron and b vitamins than anything if one is on a vegetarian or vegan diet...as milk and eggs and many vegetables inhibit iron absorption.

This is coming from a meat eater mind you...but there are many benefits from a vegetarian diet that we all dismiss because we don't want to give up meat. Plant foods are much more nutritious than meat...but I think the most important benefit about vegetarianism is if we all consumed more plants and less meat, the environment would be much better off and we would free up alot more resources. There is then of course the benefit to those animals living on farms. So, don't go dismissing the benefits as trivial, because with gas prices at $4 a gallon, it would be one way to free up many resources!

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Post by Ironman » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:23 am

tyler wrote:I just want to throw in my two cents here as well, since it seems that most people on here are very anti vegetarian.

To whomever said that human digestion is like that of carnivore, all I have to say is hah. We are much more like herbivores with our anatomy...but we do have some small characteristics of a carnivore, which would seem to support the idea of a omnivore, but with perhaps more of an emphasis on plant foods.

And for those who think its hard to get calories on a vegetarian or vegan diet, I say another hah. A good friend of mine is a vegan and one of the strongest guys i know. They just have to eat smart...as nuts, beans, some grains and vegetables are some of the most calorie dense foods with plenty of protein. The problem is usually more with iron and b vitamins than anything if one is on a vegetarian or vegan diet...as milk and eggs and many vegetables inhibit iron absorption.

This is coming from a meat eater mind you...but there are many benefits from a vegetarian diet that we all dismiss because we don't want to give up meat. Plant foods are much more nutritious than meat...but I think the most important benefit about vegetarianism is if we all consumed more plants and less meat, the environment would be much better off and we would free up alot more resources. There is then of course the benefit to those animals living on farms. So, don't go dismissing the benefits as trivial, because with gas prices at $4 a gallon, it would be one way to free up many resources!
Wrong

Here is the man/dog/sheep comparison.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_h ... ison4.html

You are wrong on your other points as well.

See mainly myth 1 here.
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths ... anism.html

Then have a look here as well.
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vegetarian.html


I am not anti-vegitard just for the hell of it. The truth trumps all. I question, rather than take the answer of the establishment. You should know by now, there is no dogmatic mythology here. When I say something, it is because I know. I check the facts.

If we were more like herbivores we would have around 150 feet of small intestine, multiple stomachs with an 8+ gallon capacity, mostly flat teeth, only 2 incisors and very different functionality. We would have a huge bulging abdominal area like a gorilla.

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Post by TeeBee » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:11 pm

Very important in the long development of man and the brain to have that animal protein --- we wouldn't be who we are without meat.

But I love the vegetarians who spout off on every subject known to man like they're experts (in between puffs of an organic cigarette). You know the ones. And what's the deal with vegetarians loving desserts so much?


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