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nootropic stack

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:35 am
by robertscott
yup, it's yet more obscure supplement chat from Bob...

So I'm considering getting some nootropics. Nootropics are said to be drugs that improve cognition and protect the brain. Sounds a bit too good to be true really but I figure what the hey.

Here's the site that I've been learning about them from:

http://www.mindnutrition.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm wondering if anyone's heard of them before? The drugs I'm considering are:

DMAE - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylethanolamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aniracetam - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniracetam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Vinpocetine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinpocetine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so if anyone knows anything about this then let me know.

Cheers
Bob

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:51 am
by Dub
Why?
Do you have a need to improve cognitively or something? Has the supplement been proven to work if there is no lack of those nutritions, or has the supplement been proven to work on people with average cognitive abilities? Many of the supplements are actually medicine for the ones with mental diseases.

Personally, I don't think they are necessary. I wouldn't use them. All those brain candy things are a bit silly to me. I tend to prefer avoiding medicinal and man made chemicals in my body. Plus, I don't like the fact that some of these drugs are playing with the blood vessels in my brains, in example dilateing them, or altering my mood in any way.

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:35 am
by robertscott
Dub wrote:Why?
Do you have a need to improve cognitively or something? Has the supplement been proven to work if there is no lack of those nutritions, or has the supplement been proven to work on people with average cognitive abilities? Many of the supplements are actually medicine for the ones with mental diseases.
mainly to improve concentration and memory. Both areas are seriously lacking. On that website there's quite a few references to studies done on healthy individuals that seem to promote them as useful for all populations, however the website is obviously trying to sell you them so I imagine they've left the contradictory studies out...
Dub wrote: Personally, I don't think they are necessary. I wouldn't use them. All those brain candy things are a bit silly to me. I tend to prefer avoiding medicinal and man made chemicals in my body. Plus, I don't like the fact that some of these drugs are playing with the blood vessels in my brains, in example dilateing them, or altering my mood in any way.
I've been altering my brain chemistry for worse reasons for years...

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:48 am
by robertscott
here's the abstract from a study I found:
Cognitive enhancing substances such as amphetamine and modafinil have become popular in recent years to improve acute cognitive performance particularly in environments in which enhanced cognition or intelligence is required. Nutraceutical nootropics, which are natural substances that have the ability to bring about acute or chronic changes in cognition have also been gaining popularity in a range of settings and applications including the workplace, driving and in the amelioration of age related cognitive decline. Huperzine A, Vinpocetine, Acetyl-L-carnitine, Rhodiola Rosea and Alpha-lipoic Acid are popular nutritional supplements that have shown promising benefits in improving a range of biological (e.g., blood flow, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, and direct neurotransmitter effects) and cognitive processes from in vitro, animal and human clinical research. We report here the first human randomized clinical trial for cognition in which we administer a combination of Huperzine A, Vinpocetine, Acetyl-carnitine, R Rosea and Alpha-lipoic acid (called Ceretrophin) vs placebo. Sixty participants (40 females and 20 males, with a mean age of 45.4 years, SD = 12.6) completed either the odd or even items from the Raven Advanced Progressive Matrices (APM) at baseline and the opposite odd or even items at week 4 after consuming either the combination nootropic or placebo. A significant study visit (time) x treatment condition interaction wasfound: F (1, 57) = 7.279, p = 0.009, partial eta(2) = .113, with paired samples t-tests revealing a significant improvement in mean APM score from baseline to retest (week 4) (t(34) = -4.045, p <.001) for the Ceretrophin (TM) group. Improvements in APM scores could be attributed to the active intervention over the placebo, indicating that the treatment improved general intelligence. Implications for improving our understanding of the biological basis of intelligence and pharmacologically improving human cognition are discussed
here's another:
nearly three decades have now passed since the discovery of the piracetam-like nootropics, compounds which exhibit cognition-enhancing properties, but for which no commonly accepted mechanism of action has been established. This review covers clinical, pharmacokinetic, biochemical and behavioural results presented in the literature from 1965 through 1992 (407 references) of piracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam, etiracetam, nefiracetam, aniracetam and rolziracetam and their structural analogues. The piracetam-like nootropics are capable of achieving reversal of amnesia induced by, e.g., scopolamine, electroconvulsive shock and hypolda. Protection against barbiturate intoxication is observed and some benefit in clinical studies with patients suffering from mild to moderate degrees of dementia has been demonstrated. No affinity for the alpha(1)-, alpha(2)-, beta-, muscarinic, 5-hydroxytryptamine-, dopamine, adenosine-A(1)-, mu-opiate, gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) (except for nefiracetam (GABA(A))), benzodiazepine and glutamate receptors has been found. The racetams possess a very low toxicity and lack serious side effects. Increased turnover of different neurotransmitters has been observed as well as other biochemical findings, e.g., inhibition of enzymes such as prolylendopeptidase. So far, no generally accepted,mechanism of action has, however, emerged. We believe that the effect of the racetams is due to a potentiation of already present neurotransmission and that much evidence points in the direction of a modulated ion flux by, e.g., potentiated calcium influx through non-L-type voltage-dependent calcium channels, potentiated sodium influx through alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid receptor gated channels or voltage-dependent channels or decreases in potassium efflux. Effects on carrier mediated ion transport are also possible.
bit too sciencey that one, but the gist seems to be they work (albeit just a little) and have low toxicity and side effects.

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:18 pm
by Jebus
I tried Piracetam, I couldn't tell if I got an improvement. I used them right before exams. I did well on the exams but its hard to say if the drug helped or not. Maybe you have to take it for a certain period of time for it to work..?

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:09 pm
by Donna32
I use Paneuromix and I'm feeling it work. Some may say that it has a placebo effect, but I really don't care. All I know is that it works for me and that I do my job better since I've started to take them.

And as it has already been said - I've altered my brain chemistry for far worse reasons than this. At least this has some really positive effect.

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:02 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
Donna,

I like your style.

It reminds of one of my favorite SNL skits

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91jlate.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clam Chowdah !!!

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:40 pm
by Donna32
:red: teaching does that to you

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:40 am
by Ironman
Some may say that it has a placebo effect, but I really don't care.
That is the root of so many problems.....

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:09 pm
by Nevage
Any update on this? I've recently been reading a lot about this and like you have battered my brain over the years with recreational substances and alcohol. Looks like some brain rehab is in need. I'm still smart, but I was a lot cleverer at school I'm sure.

I'm currently thinking along the lines of:

Piracetam
Choline
Tyrosine (in the morning)
Tryptophan (before bed)
Fish Oil (take a lot daily anyway)

Sulbutiamine also looks good but will stick with the above I think to begin with.

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:23 pm
by robertscott
Well I used them for a while during my last exam period.

Meh, can't say I noticed anything. A mate of mine has been using them for a while and he's not noticed anything.

I dunno, I'd be interested in hearing how you get on.

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:01 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
Nevage wrote: alcohol. Looks like some brain rehab is in need. I'm still smart, but I was a lot cleverer at school I'm sure.
I found Ginko Biloba brought back some of my sharpness
I had also added Flax Seed / Fish oil, vitamins, exercise, revived spirituality, and generally dealing better with stress

but I say it was the Ginko. :cyclopsani:


At work its more clear to me now why the old guys are managers and younger kids do the work. We can give better long term strategy from wisdom, while the young folks can bounce from project to project much quicker

Re: nootropic stack

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:27 am
by Nevage
Oscar_Actuary wrote: At work its more clear to me now why the old guys are managers and younger kids do the work. We can give better long term strategy from wisdom, while the young folks can bounce from project to project much quicker
Words of wisdom.