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Shoulder strength balance

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:28 am
by MaFi0s0
I read an article which cited a study that gave the strength ratios for a healthy shoulder.

I am currently on a shoulder routine for posture so this is very relevant to me, but I find the ratios hard to believe, for instance 2:1 for Adduction and Abduction, with extension high on the strength list.

Although I cant directly see the text, the study can be found here with the info below:

In general, adduction (toward the body) is higher than abduction torque (2:1), internal rotation is higher than external rotation torque (3:2), and extension is higher than flexion torque (5:4). Overall, according to Halder et al., "Adduction strength is highest, followed by extension, flexion, abduction, internal rotation, and external rotation." (8) If you want to promote balance around the shoulder joint, consider the above-mentioned ratios.

I can externally rotate about 4KG on a cable pulley which is really about 2KG once you factor in the pulley is taking some of the resistance. So working up from what should be my weakest exercise I calculated that I should be adducting 7KG and extending 5KG, this sounds a bit much to me.

Can any1 actually adduct 3.5x the amount and extend 2.5x the amount that they can externally rotate?

My calculations:
Adduction 7KG (iron cross ... Cross.html)

Extension 5KG (reverse front raise, so pulling down)

Flexion 4KG (front raise ... Raise.html)

Abduction 3.5KG (side lateral raise)

Internal Rotation 3KG

External Rotation 2KG

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:46 am
by stuward
I haven't tried all the actual exercises you have so I can't work the ratios, but if I use wide grip pull down vs military press for the adduction/abduction ratio, I'm about 2:1. The other ratios also seem normal. With cable pushdowns vs cable curls for extension:flexion. 5:4 is about right. My front pec dec vs rear pec deck would be about 3:2. Beyond that I don't think you can compare the exercises with each other since the levers change with different machines and different exercises. You're probably reading more into this that is required. As long as you're in the ballpark, you're probably OK.

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:58 am
by frogbyte
I think he did the math wrong, nothing in the quotation points to "3.5x". 3:2 is 1.5x, for instance.

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:06 pm
by MaFi0s0
cable curls are elbow flexion, im talking exclusively about shoulders and only isolation movements so pull downs or pullups cant be compared to military press.

My calculations are correct based on estimates as it shows ratios of each relative movement and order of strength for all movements.

This all might seem overly analytical but from what most people have heard, fixing shoulder muscle imbalances should get rid of clicking and improve overall strength on upper body compound lifts.

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:58 pm
by frogbyte
I don't think those ratios were supposed to be cumulatively multiplied together.

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:14 pm
by MaFi0s0
What do you mean? So what do you think the resistance is suppose to be for each of those movements?

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:34 pm
by frogbyte
Internal/external rotation 3:2 just means if you can rotate 30 lbs internally, you should be able to rotate 20 lbs externally. For my that's about right I think.

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:31 am
by Ironman
elvis wrote:The most difficult exercise from all the body part is
shoulder take much strength
to make your nuscle.
If I see a link, I'm going kick your Pakistani ass. I'm all kinds of not in the mood this $h1t.

Re: Shoulder strength balance

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:02 pm
by mdog
well, look at the muscles that extend and internally rotate your arm, the lats. Plus your pecs internall rotate and adduct. These muscles are much larger and stronger than lonhead biceps and ant. delt for flx. Relatively tiny rotator cuff and middle delt for abd. Subscap and infraspinatus for external rotation. The triceps also has a shoulder extention component.


Re: Shoulder strength balance

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:39 pm
by Travis
Mdog, if you have been visiting this site for some time, you must know digging up old threads is frowned upon.

Re: Shoulder strength balance

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:35 pm
by Jungledoc
...especially digging up old spam.