Page 1 of 2

losing some weight

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:56 pm
by leif3141
Weightlifting I have been told is the "key" to help shed some unwanted fat. Now I know that weight gain might happen with weightlifting, but it is muscle and not fat. Here is my problem: I am trying to lose weight entirely. Right now I do not care if it's fat and muscle mass. I went from being 170 pounds to over 230 in less than a year with weightlifting. I just seem to blow up way to much with weightlifting. Sure, some of it is fat, but even with dieting and doing some cardio, I still put on weight when I am weightlifting. Now here is my main question, right now I am doing about 12 reps per set, which many have told me is the best for losing fat, while not putting on muscle either. I have still put on about 5 pounds in three weeks doing this, while keeping my diet sensible. If I start doing about 15-20 reps per set, does anyone here know or have any experience in knowing if this is a better way to lose fat and not put on lots of muscle weight? I am trying to get down to 180 pounds with running and weightlifting. If weightlifting keeps putting on weight I am going to just cut it out completely and focus entirely on cardio stuff.

The only reason to this point I have included weightlifting is i Cannot run everyday because I have put on so much weight, and I do not want to loose ALL muscle. I just want to maintain and lose fat. The problem is even with 12 reps it seems like I am still gaining muscle weight. I know I post very confusing posts, but does anyone have any experience with this?

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:18 pm
by Gsus
i think it has nothing to do with reps at all the more muscle mass u have the more calories u going to burn pretty simple you say your diet is sensible but u dont tell us what u eat its most diet 90 percent and 10 percent exercising your eating to much by the looks of it no offence there. high reps for tone people would say but to me tone is lifting heavy and running a lot or some type of cardio perhaps u can do 3 full body workouts and 2-3 hitt if thats not working u can do more cardio and less lifting since u got a lot of muscle anyways. when u lose fat u probably going to lose muscle but u still want to maintain thats muscle since its one of keys to fat lost. if you lose all that muscle and fat u going to look soft so keep doing cardio im not to sure how long u can do cardio before u cut into muscle u going to have to find that out im thinking 20 mins and less goodluck

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:23 pm
by TimD
Matt, I think you are a bit too hung up with the numbers game. I what you are saying, but there really isn't any one magical number of reps. Most people in your position generally like working at a quicker pace, with short rest breaks, regardless of the amount of reps used per set. I would suggest you go through the articles section and the forum overat Dragondoor. Most of those guys and gals are into being lean with wiry tpe of strength. A lot of them are also into a strength/ endurance type of training as well, and that sounds like what you're after. Lots of ideas over there
Scroll down to the bottom for the link to the articles, and although most of these routines are made for ketlebells, most can easily be done with DB's. I just like the KB handles best when it comes to swings and such. Also check out Bryce;s board at and his site at
Most of these sites I'm putting out are into strength, endurance, and being lean. Certainly not what you would think of as bodybuilding, although it will to some degree. Another good site is to check out crossfit, same thing.
I think these might be more in line with what you are looking for, and as the previous poster noted, diet plays a very important role. Most of the crossfitters use something along the lines of the Zone, but frankly, if you check out the nutritional setion here on this site, there is very good info and isn't too far off the Zoneor Berardi's stuff
Hope this gives you some avenues to explore.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:03 pm
by Ironman
I think it's all diet related. You probably take in a lot of calories and a lot of simple carbs. I bet all you would have to do is choose a diet from one of those sites.

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:16 am
by leif3141
well maybe it is somewhat diet related. I generally eat between 2000-2400 calories a day. I do eat a lot of good carbs like oatmeal, wheat bread, and brown rice. Everyone once in awhile I may have a soda or ice cream, but not nearly as much as I used too. I am pretty sure put on any more fat recently (otherwise my girlfriend would let me know), so I would like to think it is mostly muscle.

Tim (or anyone else who knows)...more on the quicker pace of you think it would be more effective than just the typical workout to maybe decrease a little weight but shorten breaks inbetween? I guess what I am asking (to anyone) is have you seen any positive effects of this (on fat loss)? I'm sure some question has been posted like this before...but I do not get to come on here very often, so please, don't get upset!

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:05 am
by TimD
Matt, first, nutrition. To me, you just raised the buzzwords, good cards,oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat bread, and to me, that may be alright for maintenance, but not for your goals at all, rather than giving you the big spiel on sticking with lean meats, fruits, veg, good fats and using starches very spariningly, please read ... habits.htm ... ting_2.htm
These are much more in line with your specific goals in mind.
Type of workout. Yes, the quicker pace workouts with shorter rest breaks, i.e circuits, complexes, are much more conducive to your goals. They aren't so good for putting on muscle mass or gaining maximal strength. This is due to the fact they many studies have shown they elicit more gh production naturally than other protocols. The types over at dragondoor and crossfit thrive on them, and most are naturally very lean. I would definately give it a shot. They're diets also closely resemble what Berardi and Dr. Sears (the Zone) recommend.

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:11 pm
by leif3141
Guess I have to be honest. I have to eat some starch carbs because they have more protein than fruits and veggies. But you are probably wondering why I would need protein from bread instead of meat. Well, I do not eat meat, and that will not change for any reason. I don't get protein from just grains (also milk, eggs, beans, nuts, some veggies) but grains like wheat bread are a decent vegetarian source for protein. I know it might sound weird for a vegetarian to be on this site...or even weightlifting at all...but I get by fine without meat.

But I tried the new workout today (only 30 to 1 minute inbetween sets)...and let me tell ya it FLOORED me! It was great! Wasn't able to do as much weight per set...but my heart was pounding the whole time and I think it is exactly what I needed

One more thing about the's not like I eat 7 pieces of bread a day...I am just talking about like a PBJ or a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast.

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:55 pm
by Ironman
That tends to be the problem. All the vegetarians I have known were really breaditarians. They ate mostly starchy stuff and very little fruits and veggies. Eat more eggs and veggies, mushrooms, and soy products. Even try some whey protein and maybe a little cheese. You are going to have a hard time loosing weight eating PB&J and milk. With oatmeal, the real thing is ok, but that flavored instant stuff is no good.

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:08 am
by TimD
Hi Matt. Glad you liked the workouts. I love that type of stuff, and you're usually through in about 20 minutes, with a pounding heart and terribly fired up metabolism.
Now, diet. OK, I understand you're position on meat, and will not argue with it. You have your convictions. That said, grains do not have much protein, and they are incomplete. Legumes do have protein, and complement grains to make complete protein, however, to get a major amount, you would have to magnify the portions, and I would NOT recommend doing that with your goals. Also bear in mind, that the useability of vegeble protein is not very high on the bioavailaility scale.
You do have an option though, and thats Dairy. You made mention that that wasn't taboo for you. Try to get the majority of your protein from eggs (perfect-forget all that nonsense about chloresterol-and if you're worried about fat content, mix 1 or 2 real eggs with an equal amount of egg substitute, its just colored egg whites), cottage cheese (I love the lowfat variety), some milk if desired, and if you can handle it, tofu. Try to eat lots of veg and some fruit. Nope, not much useable protein there, but lots of other good stuff, like fiber, phyto chemicals, vit/mineral, plus it will really fill you up. And do not forget nuts. Some protein with some very good fat thrown in. You really should not have to pig out on these, because the total amount of protein required really isn't much more than .8 grams/lb of lean bodyweight, according to most sports nutritionists. And if you still have problems, supplement with some egg protein powder, or something similar. I really don't think you should have a problem cutting back on starches at all. Notice, I did't say cut them out. A small bowl of oatmeal for breakfast is great, I'm just saying rely mostly on your fruits and veg, use starch sparingly, for your goals.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:33 pm
by leif3141
hey thanx guys. Yea I know it's kinda strange to meet a vegetarian weightlifter...but thanx for the advice. I am trying to cut back on starches until I lose about another 10 or 15 pounds. Ironman, you are kind of correct with the breaditarian thing. When I first stopped eating meat, I really did consume too much starch. Now I am consuming a moderate amount, but maybe will cut back on them for a lil while.

Just a couple of more questions...I do not want to eat a crazy amount of eggs, but is that subsitute stuff ok to eat? I've always been kind of iffy of things like that...I always thought it was just fake. Also, someone mentioned eating more mushrooms, which kind of confused me. Are they really that great for you? Because I eat plenty of fruit, but always have a hard time getting my 4 or 5 servings of veggies (unless you count potatoes or corn, cause I like those). Maybe if I could eat mushrooms as well...but I always thought they weren't that great for you...

Oh and one last you think buying frozen veggies and making a stir fry with them and tofu would be good? I've always heard freezing vegetables (or anything for that matter) destroys most of the vitamin and minerals...I just find it much more convienient to cook them than fresh ones I guess. Sorry for rambling once again, but thanks for the help Tim and Ironman.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:44 pm
by TimD
Hi Matt, potatoes and corn are veggies, but almost all starch. Very nutrient dense hough, and good in smaller quanties.
Egg substitue is about the same as a protein powder, it's nothing more than egg whites, you just have to pay more for them than a regular egg, I recommend adding 1 egg to 2 parts egg sub (egg sub by itself is pretty bland tasting)
Frozen vegetables are great, almost as nutritious a fresh, I have no idea where you heard they lost the nutrients, and are much more convenient to use than buying all the fresh stuff and losing it in the refrigerator because you can't eat it all up in time. I do stir fry stuff with it all the time, but with meat, fish or chicken, but done with tofu would be every bit as good. I cheat though, I nuke them in a microwave, then toss in the meat and sauce it. You could do the same with tofu.
Mushrooms, well I love them, but as far as to any benefit, I've never heard of any. They're just tasty

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:44 pm
by leif3141
I am sorry but I forgot one more thing. This was actually about the exercising itself. Doing the less rest periods inbetween sets has caused me to drop off some weight from the exercises. For instance, I used to do 3 sets of one arm dumbell row (60, then 80, then 80 again). Now I dropped down to doing 60 3 times with about 30 seconds inbetween sets. Is that too much of a drop?

Or same thing with Bench. Used to be 135X10, 165X10, 155X10. Now it was 115X15, 155X9, 135X10. Am I dooming myself by not doing as much weight? It feels alot more hardcore than the 3 or 4 minute rests, but I am just wondering if the lower weight (even if it is harder) will not boost my metabolism as much.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:47 pm
by Ryan A
It should be fine. You are working on body composition. This usually means you are going to suffer in terms of maximum strength. If you find your weight loss stops, switch to a strength phase and get more of that muscle back. Then switch back to the circuit stuff and keep rotating every 4-8 weeks until you are wear you at in composition and then just work on strength or maintenance.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:50 am
by Ironman
Nothing wrong with eating lots of eggs. The yolk has been falsely accused. Besides, even with your higher blood sugar, not eating meat probably keeps your cholesterol synthesis to a minimum. You're probably one of those animal rights guys, so it's probably guilt anyway isn't it? They do have cage free, where the chickens get to roam around and aren't mistreated.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:56 am
by TimD
I agree with Ironman's advice. Just a note on egg substitute though. It's just egg whites (all protein, none of the yolk stuff) They real food, they just put some food coloring i there to look like real eggs. Go for them. I would advise mixing them with real eggs though, as the yolks are nutritious, but if you are worried about the fat content, then mix them up. You'll get the est of both worlds.