Recurring Injury :(

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Ryan A
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Post by Ryan A » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:30 pm

I would find something a little less dynamic for the wrist than a powerclean.

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Post by kidkurious » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:36 pm

How about just doing the 5x5 exercises, but at a 12-15 range?

Can I follow the 5x5 program, but instead of working up to 5 rep max, I go for 15 rep max?

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Post by Ryan A » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:34 pm

I wouldnt try doing any maxes until your injury is fixed.

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Post by Matt Z » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:56 am

I agree with Ryan. Don't max out for at least the first week or two (longer if you experience any discomfort or soarness in your wrist). Then when you do, start with a high rep max, and build up to a low rep max over a series of workouts.

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Post by kidkurious » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Well seeing that its 5x5 and the first few weeks don't have any maxing out, and since I'm modifying it to 5x12, I figure it would be safe. Here is an example with bb row:

-----------------------
BB Bent-over row
12 RM = 86lbs

-week1-
monday:
BB Row:
12 reps:
set1: 33 lbs
set2: 41 lbs
set3: 50 lbs
set4: 58 lbs
set5: 66 lbs

I don't go to failure on any of the sets until I get to about week 5.

Should I decrease the # of sets since the # of reps is higher now?

Is that a good idea?

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Post by Ryan A » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:18 pm

You dont need to do 5x12=60 reps. 5x5=25 reps. Big difference in volume. If you are looking for something to keep you free of injury, you should just do 5x5 with a fast pace, great form, and moderate weight.

I just read a great article comparing 3x10 to 10x3, explaining how 10x3 can give much better benefits for most people.

Let me know if you are interested in hearing about it.

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Post by kidkurious » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:43 pm

By fast pace, do you mean less rest between sets? or faster form?

I'm interested in reading about the 3x10 thing.

Post the article :) thanks!

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Post by Ironman » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:12 am

I hate to go off on a tangent but, I think 3x10 and 10x3 are VERY different. I can do 3 to 4 sets of 6 to 8 reps to failure and on some sets beyond. It takes me a few months to overtrain on that. I did 6 to 8 sets of 3 just short of failure. By the 4th week I was totally overtraining. I think it depends on the intensity of the set and not the amount of reps that determine how many sets you can do. For example I don't even know how long it would take me to overtrain on GVT (10 sets). However I did optimized volume training and that was starting to overtrain me in a week.

So for me 5 sets maxing out is 5 sets maxing out weather you do it in 3 reps or 10. say your 3 max is 225 and your 10 is 200. 3 at 225 and 10 at 200 do the same thing, you can't move the bar anymore. I have just noticed it is more about to what degree has your body been taxed and how many times and nothing to do with how it was done. The how it was done is what effects your results as in was it strength, power, size, endurance or just some cardio.

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Post by Ryan A » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:34 pm

Fast pace I mean less rest, always use good form.

So onto the 3x10 vs 10x3.

The study goes like this. They have some guy and they also have a way to measure force production.

So lets take our favorite exercise the bench press and load it with 135 lb. and assume that 3x10 at 135 is a bit of work and maybe on the last set he goes to failure.

In the test, you find that with each rep in each set, force production starts off high, say near 150 lbs (the bar has a bit of acceleration to it and moves up rapidly) but by the 8th rep you see a dip down to 135-140 (the bar is barely moving as the force exerterd is very near the bar weight). This trend is measured over the 3 sets and you can get a total volume which is just 3x10x135=4050. You can also get an average force production, which would be about 142ish pounds assuming a linear fall off in force.

Now you take the same guy (but he is fresh) and you have him lift 10x3 at 135. Note Ironman that this means the sets are easy and so you are not training at all near failure so no overtraining problem here. Anyway, you see the same trend that on the first 1-4 reps or so a high force production of 150 lbs exists. You rack the weight, rest a bit and go on. You complete all the 10 sets in the same amount of time it takes to do the 3x10. This means that your volume is the same and your workout time is the same. The difference is that your average force production is much higher, probably near 150 lbs. it also means that you are never training near failure and will likely recover much faster.

So now in short, 10x3 gives you all the same results in terms of volume and workout time but you have a much higher force production per rep, which means your body will adapt faster to produce higher force because that is what it's being asked to do. In the 3x10, you are asking it to produce lower force about 50% of the time, so you will not adapt as quickly.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:17 am

That's a pretty slick idea. I might have have to give that a try sometime.

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:22 am

Hmmm ... I've been doing something similar lately on my light/medium days. Rather than doing a single 8RM working set, I've been doing 2-3 working sets of 5 reps each with the same weight. One difference however is that by the 3rd working set I'm generally at or near failure. So far this seems to be working well.

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