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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:55 am

oh yea, it does say front. oops, I was going to say. Ok now it all makes sense.

hoosegow
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Post by hoosegow » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:06 am

Speaking of box squats, you might be interested in this from Charles Poliquin found in one of this weeks articles. Again guys, if I am violatating some copywrite law, I apologize and please delete.

Box Squats for Athletes and Bodybuilders?

Q: What do you think of having athletes do box squats? What about bodybuilders?


A: I never use them. With athletes, you want the most bang for your buck, the highest return, because you only have eleven weeks on average to train them during their off-season. So the choice of exercises becomes really important.

The problem I have with box squats is that their application is limited to powerlifting. The reason being is the goal of powerlifting is to lift the highest amount of weight for the shortest amount of distance within the rules. Essentially in the box squat, your shins don't travel forward. Now I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel forward for propulsion. So the mechanics of the box squat aren't found in sport.

Do you think all the Westside people are up in arms yet and have me on their hit list? But it's the Bruce Lee principle again: use what is useful and reject what is not. Box squats are the only thing in the Westside system I don't agree with. They only have applications for powerlifting.

Also, any sort of restricted movement pattern tends to change soft tissue integrity. One thing you'll find with people who do a lot of box squats is that they're abnormally tight in the piriformis muscle, for example. In sports where you have to change direction a lot, the box squat will actually decrease your power because you won't be able to use those muscles efficiently.

Finally, most of the athletes I have are highly paid. There's a risk when doing box squats of the athlete bouncing on the box due to lack of concentration. The trauma that can result on the sacral vertebraes could be tremendous. There are just better alternatives. If you're a powerlifter, they're great. If you're any other type of athlete, stay away from the box squat.

Now, as far as bodybuilding is concerned, you can inject box squats sparingly into the training process. They will hypertrophy the thighs and glutes. But bodybuilding isn't an athletic endeavor. Most bodybuilders can't walk and chew gum at the same time. They're not known for coordination!

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Post by Matt Z » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:12 am

I can see how box squats wouldn't directly benefit most atheletes. However, if using box squats improves regular squatting and regular squats improve performance, then wouldn't box squats have an indirect effect on performance? Also, I would hope most highly paid atheletes train through the offseason.

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Post by TimD » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:31 am

Hi Hoosegow. Don't worry about the cut and paste article you put up. I's not lke he's selling it in a course, and I see no violation. I'll let James decide on that one. Ironman and I moderate, but we're pretty liberal and usually only take out the blatant spam. Besides, it was an interesting point of view. Probably won't make the BFS guys (bigger, faster, stronger0 very happyy, as they use tons of box squats in their programs.
Tim

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Post by Matt Z » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:46 am

Ryan, where do you position the bar for your "Parallel Powerlifting Squat." Is it in the low-bar position used by most powerlifters (with the bar at the level of the rear delts) or the high-bar position used by most bodybuilders (bar resting on the upper traps)?

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Post by Ryan A » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:29 pm

I mix it up usually.

The 5x345 was high bar with slightly beyond shoulder width stance but not a full squat, just a parallel one like would pass in a powerlifting meet. That is all I meant by that. The 1x365 was low bar with a very wide stance done on a pretty low box.

I have had a hard time finding a comfortable way to back squat for some reason. I was using box squats the most when I was interested in upping my numbers in the squat and deadlift. That is when it worked for me. I found it didnt really help my athletic performance much at all. The main reason I started using them was because I was having hip problems and the box squats actually helped fixed that.

I thin box squats can help you find weaknesses when you might not notice them in a regular squat. When I first started box squatting I would have a tendency to hit the box on my way down because my hamstrings were too weak as I got below parallel. This explained why I would lose full squats right at the end too. Thats when I started doing GHR and my squat and deadlift numbers went up a lot. I think the box squat really helps the deadlift, more sumo than conventional, but still good for both.

There are more productive things to do than learn an assistance movement when you are an athlete. Specific skill training should definitely take precedence over that. In powerlifting, squatting is the skill training, so learning the assists has its place. Athletes just dont have enough time when they are training other things.

For athletic things I still favor snatches as the number one exercise. For this application, I like front squats a lot more because they give flexibility in the ankles which is something I need.

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Post by Hoister » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:13 pm

Forgot to post numbers for my lifts. These are personal bests (1rm), some old, some current:


-a clean and press movement - 265# pc+pp, 305# c&j both at bwt 205#
-a deadlift movement - 515# w/ 2" bar alt grip
-a snatch movement (includes swings) - bwt power snatch - 180#
-carry/pushing/dragging weight for distance or time - farmers walk with 120# each hand for 2.2 km before giving up (Put weight down and picked up 30 times) (Basically a deadlift and walk X 30 reps). (KILLER - took 7 days to feel "normal" enough to work out again).
-Floor presses - (flat) 215# sandbag & (bridge position) 180# sandbag. Started laying flat on floor, rolled on side, grabbed bag and rolled it onto chest to press out. 1 rep from each side of torso. For bridge position i assumed the bridge with wt on chest, then pressed.
-rows - 220# w/ 2" bar, straight grip
-good mornings - 300# from pins in rack
-squatting - 485#

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Post by hoosegow » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:42 pm

Are you sick Hoister? A farmers walk for how long? Your forearms must be the size of fire hydrants.

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