Weighted dips and flyes for chest

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leif3141
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Weighted dips and flyes for chest

Post by leif3141 » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:54 pm

Good alternative to benching? Good enough I should ask...

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Post by Ironman » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:13 pm

weighted chest dips can replace flat or decline bench. pbar is more triceps though. Flys really aren't a substitue though. weighted pushups work.

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TimD
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Post by TimD » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:28 pm

I agree with the dips. Focus in on the chest by giving a forward lean into the movement, and flare he elbows out somewhat, taking note of how your flexibility in the movement holds out. There was a trainer back in the 50's through the 80's named Vince Gironda, who trained a lot of the early stars. He set up his P bars to generally angle out in a V pattern, he would have the trainee face in the direction of the bars getting wider, i.e farther apart, and use a grip with elbows and palms facing out, to more or less fore the flare. He then positioned the trainee to omewhere inside the bars where the distance between bars fit the trainees flexibility.
As to flyes, well, I'm not all that fond of them, but I have seen some Powerlifters use what they call a modified fly, which is something along the lines of a cross between a fly and a DB press. Hold the DB's over your chest/face area. When starting to let them down, let the arms bend so that the upper arm and forearm are about at a 90 degree angle to each other and get the elbows down as low to the ground as you can. When coming up, let the arms straighten up while pressing up and squeezing your chest in. In this movement, the palms are facing. The bell plate should be close to touching at the top, and finish the move with lalmost locked ebows and squeezing the bells as high as they can go using the chest . Also known as a Hise chest shrug at the end.
Tim

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Stephen Johnson
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Re: Weighted dips and flyes for chest

Post by Stephen Johnson » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:40 pm

leif3141 wrote:Good alternative to benching? Good enough I should ask...
Just curious - why are you looking for an alternative to benching? Most lifters can't seem to get enough of it.

Not me, though. I can flat barbell bench every now and then, but doing it regularly causes big time shoulder inflammation. Since switching to dumbbell presses/flies, my shoulder soreness is gone and my chest has actually improved. As I mentioned in a previous thread, bodybuilders like Bill Pearl and Eddie Robinson both swear by dumbbell flies for chest development.

leif3141
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Re: Weighted dips and flyes for chest

Post by leif3141 » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:36 am

Stephen Johnson wrote:
leif3141 wrote:Good alternative to benching? Good enough I should ask...
Just curious - why are you looking for an alternative to benching? Most lifters can't seem to get enough of it.

Not me, though. I can flat barbell bench every now and then, but doing it regularly causes big time shoulder inflammation. Since switching to dumbbell presses/flies, my shoulder soreness is gone and my chest has actually improved. As I mentioned in a previous thread, bodybuilders like Bill Pearl and Eddie Robinson both swear by dumbbell flies for chest development.

Mine is for similiar reasons as yours. I have been doing weighted chest dips and seemed to have mastered them almost primarily as a chest exercise. I have heard that barbell benching impedes on shoulder abilities, and with DB benching I cannot seem to get nearly enough weight above me to really make them challenging. I have adjustable DB's and putting up more than 60 lbs each is nearly impossible for me. I am just wondering if I were to bench in like a year from now, if it would not suffer too much because I am doing other things...

Oh by the way, I do not have a rack to take off a 200 lb loaded barbell either (another reason for Deadlifts instead of squats). But I just use my washer and dryer as "dipping" poles, although in reality you obviously cannot grip them like a pole. I am used to it though.

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Post by TimD » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:50 am

Eric, pre WWII, a lot of the old timers got very good chest development from chest dips, same reasonas what you stated, there weren't that many BP bench/rack combos around, as prior to the 60's it wasn't a terribly popular lift. As to imingments, well, it's been my opinion for quite some time that focusing in n the BP only lets the shoulder girdle get way out of alignment; i.e. imbalances are created. It's my contention that if you keep the shoulder girdle in blance, equal pulls for pushes in the same plane of movement, and in all planes of movement, you'll do just fine. However, if you have issues, and BB benches don't fit into the scheme, dips and DB work are fine. Bottom line, keep the shoulders healthy.
Tim

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Re: Weighted dips and flyes for chest

Post by Stephen Johnson » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:40 am

leif3141 wrote:...and with DB benching I cannot seem to get nearly enough weight above me to really make them challenging. I have adjustable DB's and putting up more than 60 lbs each is nearly impossible for me.
You're making the common mistake of comparing dumbbell bench press poundages with barbell bench press poundages. Barbell poundages will always be higher. If doing more than 60 pound dumbbell presses are nearly impossible for you, you're being challenged when you do them.

If people could lift more with dumbbell bench presses than barbell benches, they would be used in powerlifting meets

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