I could use a little help

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afgzayed
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I could use a little help

Post by afgzayed » Tue May 01, 2007 11:06 pm

Hi, I am a 16 year old Male and I'm about 5'7. I weight about 203-205 pounds. My body fat percentage is about 28.8%. I wanted to know if my dieting and exercise program will help me lose 30 pounds of fat.

As far as dieting, my day goes something like this

M1: 2 cups of puff wheat cereal with 2 cups of 2% fat milk and an apple.
M2: Nutrition bar (apex or nature valley) with a banana.
M3: 3 oz piece of ham or turkey with two slices of whole wheat bread with fruit.
M4: microwaveable chicken sandwich with fruit or a protein shake
M5: Usually 3 oz chicken breasts with 1 cup of brown rice and a side salad (usually a cup of carrot slices with 2 cups of chopped lettuce)
M6: Grilled cheese sandwich with fruit, 2 slices of wheat bread with 1 oz processed swiss cheese slice.

The meals add up to around 2000 calories

I do cardio everyday for 30 minutes on the elliptical, usually the interval program because I don't know how to do HIIT

I weight train 3 days a week.
Monday: Chest and Back
Decline bench press, incline DB bench press, chest press machine, Dips, and DB fly. For back i do cable front pulldowns or assisted pullups and cable or barbell rows.

Wednesday: Shoulders and Legs
Military press, DB lateral raise, DB shrug. For legs I do leg extensions, DB lunges, and straight leg dead lifts. I want to get a little taller so I'm laying of standard deadlifts and squats.

Friday: Depending on what I did on Monday its Either Chest and Back or Shoulders and Legs.

Am I doing the right stuff? Do I need to change anything?


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Post by VoK » Tue May 01, 2007 11:47 pm

"I want to get a little taller so I'm laying of standard deadlifts and squats. "

That's pretty much false.


I would definitely do deadlifts and squats. Since it seems you have avoided them, I would start off with a very light weight and progress when you feel comfortable, probably find someone who's knowledgeable to help you out.

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Post by Wouter » Wed May 02, 2007 7:30 am

Hello, to lose some more fat, you should better do full-body routines. Altough your 2 day split is good, full body routines will burn some extra calories by increasing your metabolism some more.
Be sure to stay away from knee-destroying exercises such as running, leg extensions and basically every leg exercise when you let your knee pass your toes,...
I strongly believe that doing cardio outdoors burns more calories then cardio indoors. Even though your hartrate might be the same, outdoor you will have wind, hills, ... that way you will do some form of intensity training and are more motivated to do longer cardiac activities (not needed by HIIT). If you just cycle (as hard as you can) and ride around, you will see that the time passes MUCH faster then when you're just doing cardio indoors. Because of this you will be more motivated to keep on training.

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Post by TimD » Wed May 02, 2007 8:26 am

First off, I think your eating plan is way off on the wrong foot. Way too much starchy carbs.Eery meal. Here are two links
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... habits.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm
Secondly, on the workout, train the whole body. Wouter has it correct, fullbody, quick pace workouts to jack up the metabolism and build up work capacity combined with some form of HIIT should do nicely. This article sums it up well, with examples on how to set it up.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539
Good raining
Tim

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Wed May 02, 2007 8:32 am

1 - I agree with Wouter that you should be using full body weightlifting routines, rather than splits. You should train three times a week, using a heavy/light/medium scheme - heavy on Monday, light on Wednesday, and medium on Friday. Don't make the mistake of trying to set personal records with each successive workout - if you do, you'll get burned out really fast

2 - As for your diet, it's too heavy with grains and light on vegetables. You also aren't getting any fats other than from dairy. Fatty fish like salmon or mackeral and nuts will provide you with healthy fats that will keep your insulin levels down as well as reduce exercise-induced inflammation.

PS - I see that TimD beat me to the punch on the diet. Good links ;-)


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Post by Matt Z » Wed May 02, 2007 11:16 am

So you do 5 exercises per workout for chest, more than any muscle group. That's not good. Also, squats and deadlifts aren't going to stunt your growth, so you shouldn't be afraid to use them.

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Post by afgzayed » Wed May 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Hey thanks for the advice guys. I still need a little clarification first though. Are full body workouts aimed at maintaining or growing muscle or do they just increase your metabolic rate? Also, how many exercises and reps/sets should I do for each muscle group? Finally, how often should I do HIIT?

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Post by TimD » Wed May 02, 2007 5:53 pm

Both, depends on how you go about it. Done quick paced, it will build some muscle and strength, but primarily is for getting in shape metabolically, and builds good work capacity. Done slower, just squats, dips and chins with all the weight you can muster will build great strength and size. Go for your goals first, and the way I read yours, you are after fat loss primarily, with strength and muscle size a secondary priority
Tim

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Post by TimD » Thu May 03, 2007 11:02 am

I realize I didn't take the examples far enough. Here is one. Note: I'm not suggesting you do this. Just an example.
1. For the fat loss thing. Seeral ways to put together a full body workout that is in fac a bit HIIT in nature by itself, yet lends itself to building size and strength to a degree, especially if you are a novice. I'll give 3 examples.
a. based on the old PHA system (peripheral heart action-very common in the 60's).
Set up circuits alternating exercises between upper and lower body. Example: squats, BP, hyper extensions, rowing. Do each exercise for 1 set, then immediately go on to the next. When you finish, catch your breath for a minute or two, repeat for 3 or 4 rounds. Then go on to another circuit of clean and press (1 clean 1 press is one rep), chins, situps or leg raises, and do the same thing, go straight through, catch your brath, repeat 3 or 4 times. You should be able to get through this in 20 minutes or so. reps in the 8-12 range work well
b. complexes, simply circuits, but with each exercise done back to back, no rest in between, never putting the bar down, and using the same weight. example, upright rowX 6, muscle snatch X 6, squat push press combo (thruster)X6, good morning X 6, dips X10, chins X10. Repeat three to five times
c. Based on crossfit (see crossfit.com for more examples). Here is one of my favorites. 400 M run (I use a rowing maching for the equivalent, bad hip), then 21 2 db swings using 2 30 lb DBs,
12 pullups or bodyrows. 3-5 rounds
All of these examples are how to use full body for the metabolic benefits, plus you can probly see that due to the quick nature, it will definately build work capacity, and there will definately be a carry over for size and strength.
2. The above workouts are pretty good, but they don't really involve limit strength that much. An example of full body for those purposes might look like this,
Schedule one, Squats, Power Cleans or Power Snatches, Bench Press
Shedule twoDeadlift, overhead press/pushpress, Front squat
The idea, is after lighter warm up sets, try to get 3 worksets in the 4-6 rep range, and when you can get 3X 5, add weight. Alternate schedules, getting 2-3 sessions in per week.
The loading is heavy for the work sets, and take a 3-5 min rest break between sets You might feel recovered, but the CNS (central nervous system) needs this to recover. Take your time, your focusing on different objectives than you were with the metcon.
3. Mix and match. This is simply combining the 2. The crossfitters call this ME blackbox LS represents limit strength. Metcon represents the metabolic geared workouts. T represents a total body move (clean and pess, snatch), U represents and upper body move or movements (ex, BP and Row), L represents lower body (Sq or DK)
A plan might look like this, with a 3 on 1 off cycle
Wk1 LS-U, Metcon, LS-L, off, Metcon, LS-T,Metcon
Wk2 off , repeat cyle to finish the week
I think you get the idea of the differences now
Tim

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Thu May 03, 2007 11:50 am

1 - I don't think that HIIT is a good thing for a newcomer to exercise to perform. A 15 year old like Afgzayed is at low risk for cardiovascular disease, but fatal exercise-induced arrythmias can occur at any age.

2 - As for a routine for him to use, I like this one. He should focus more on learning the exercises than establishing a workout tempo at this stage.

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Post by TimD » Thu May 03, 2007 11:59 am

Stephen,I would agree with you on the beginner's program IF he were a beginner. I got the impression, because of his split program, he'd been lifting for a while. If he is a beginner, then yes, learn proper movement first. The PHA training set up isn't too different, just done quicker.
On the HIIT thing, I don't agree. Most kids can take a licking and keep on ticking (The old Timex thing) It was quite common when i was growing up to do sprints along with PHA style training, especialy for wrestling practice, back when I was 13. I feel that the more work capacity he builds up, the more it will jack his metabolism. And you can always scale things back. I know that around here (Hampton Roads area Va) we have several Athletic clubs that start training the kids in Track and Field starting at ages below 10. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Tim

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Thu May 03, 2007 12:55 pm

TimD

At 5'7", 205 pounds and 28.8% bodyfat, Agzayed is clinically obese - his BMI is over 32 (30+ is obese). How many of the kids doing PHA training with you at age 13 were clinically obese?

His doing HIIT at this time is a risk not worth taking, IMHO.

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Post by TimD » Thu May 03, 2007 1:02 pm

Well, you've got a point there. But basically, PHA will work, just tone the pace down, catch your breath, then move on, and over time quicken it up. I'm your age Stephen, and there weren't that many kids around back in the early 60's that were clinically obese. If you recall, if we went anywhere, it was either walk or ride your bike. We used to ride our bikes up to theDam and go swimming. Taking those hills was pretty much HIIT related. Fast foods and packaged stuff wasn't really available in large quantities, and my mother would never have it in the house anyway. The point being, I think it's better if he uses the circuit or PHA concept, just ease in, use a useable pace, and try and build on it. I know a lot of people my age that use crossfit, they just scale it back, and it was my father's cardiologist that recommended that regimen.
Tim

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Thu May 03, 2007 2:04 pm

TimD

I'm making a number of assumptions about afgzayed (from his first post) which might be incorrect. Better for me to wait for him to clear things up about his training experience.

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Post by Ironman » Thu May 03, 2007 2:22 pm

I have found a lot of success starting beginners on a 3 day a week full body hypertrophy type workout. Then maybe 2 20 minute sessions of standard cardio. The more intense type, no fat burning zone crap. Then later on have them work up to HIIT type stuff. Like sprints or a dumbbell or barbell complex with very light weight. I have them eat high protein low glycemic type diet. Or even low carb of some kind if they can do it.

As long as they stick with it obese beginners seem to gain strength and muscle mass quite rapidly. Especially if they are older and had a lot of atrophy. They lose fat pretty fast too. Cardiovascular health improves over time as well, and it shouldn't be long before they can do HIIT.

Heavy basic lift seem to be the best. squat if they can, leg press if they can't. Usually people who are obese can do deadlift variations, or work up to it in a month or so.

Starting people off on as much free weight as possible is the best. It is a lot more effective. If you are patient it only takes people a couple sets to master most any basic lift.

Of course if medical issues exist, checking with a doctor is important.


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