Helping My Girlfriend Lose Weight

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Post by Ironman » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:21 pm

Actually vegetarians get violent and aggressive from deficiencies. I don't remember which thing was the problem.

I think the food pyramid is crap too.

I can also say that in one obese female I know, heavy weight training and a good diet had a dramatic effect. Fat loss was quick and steady. I haven't talked to her in a while, but she was consistently going down dress sizes.


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Post by stuward » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:47 pm

CJ Waid wrote:
stuward wrote:
CJ Waid wrote: As far as differentiating between Omega 6 and Omega 3, I think it's more important to worry about what type of Omega 3's you are getting, after all, if you are getting enough EPA/DHA you don't really have to worry too much about the Omega 6's anyway (unless your worried about them because they are polyunsaturated, and might be subject to peroxidation), don't know if they are or not, I'm not that smart myself, but Omega 6 is what stops ALA from converting over to DHA & EPA anyway... so if you just skip that step and take fish oil, you don't really have that problem, all you have to worry about is the peroxidation issue.

My point... I did my homework too, and I eat just like the food pyramid, Again, I am not trying to say anyone is wrong, just voicing what I know, trying to help.
My point is that the food pyramid just lumps it all under polyunsaturated and says that safflower oil is a good source of oil. Most people get way too much Omega 6 and not enough Omega 3 and following the food pyramid will not help you. You talk about fish oil so I know you understand. People who do not know the difference will be mislead.

The food pyramid was put together with a lot of politics behind it and a lot of lobbying by special interest groups. I have a distrust about anything the government says anyway. I don't think the food pyramid is based on science.

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Post by CJ Waid » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:18 pm

The food pyramid is exactly what the ACSM suggest, it is based on solid science, and I don't think it differentiates between any types of fats, just that you shouldn't eat a ton of meat, eat more veggies 3-5 servings a day, eat some fruit, and don't use too many oils and added sugars...

Grains contain excellent carbohydrates, of equal quality to veggies... The difference is that Veggies have more antioxidants, and sterols in them. BUT, Grains actually contain more soluable fiber (which lowers blood cholesterol)... So....

The average american eats 14 omega 6's to 1 omega 3, the ratio should be closer to 4 to 1.

All omega fatty acids are polyunsaturated, which means that they are predisposed to peroxidation, which is basically the degredation of the molecule. Anyway, that process (peroxidation) creates free radicals, so, yeah eat 3-5 servings of veggies a day, drink some coffee or tea too, the antioxidants will take care of the free radicals (hopefully), take some fish oil in, or eat fresh cold water fish... Get the EPA/DHA form of omega 3's, Flax seed is crap, it's not crap, but it's not worth going out of your way for, fish oil is though. They even make expensive fish oil that is pretty much gauranteed to be free of mercury, I'm not worried about that, I buy the cheap stuff.

As far as eating primarily grains, that is what I do, I love the soluable fiber.

As far as meat goes, keep in mind it's the cholesterol and the saturated fats that get you, so buy extra lean...

Fruits keep your brain working, they prevent cancer, etc. etc. etc.

So, back to veggies, veggies are loaded with fiber too, most of them are at least, and a lot of that is insoluable, GRAINS THOUGH are loaded with soluable, they are both actually loaded with both soluable and insoluable, but grains are definately the preferred source for soluable... Which is more desirable than insoluable (although need both)... So.... Grains are good.... Love them, that and grains help keep your cholesterol, and blood sugar in check... (keeping your blood sugar in check helps you lose weight).

I TRUST THE FOOD PYRAMID 100%

That is all I can say as far as that goes...

The issue with the FDA's recommendations really came down to Dr. Victor Herberts research, which was an issue between daily allowances, rather than recommended daily intake. Which was corrected years back when the World Health Organization made the FDA look lazy by going ahead and shining light on that fact, along with the help of Dr. Herbert.

THE BEST BOOK, I have ever read about nutrition was 'Total Nutrition' By Dr. Victor Herbert and the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine, it's a thick book, but it is an EASY read. hey, I graduated high school the very bottom of my class, and I enjoyed reading it. Better than any other nutrition book I've read.

DAMN I TYPE A LOT. Sorry for that.

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Post by TimD » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:39 pm

I'm with Stu, t's based a lot on the lobbies, you know, battle creek, etc and all the food mfrs out there. Ikeep seeing these commercials out there that the breakfast cereal types are pushing, he mini wheat things, pushing whole grains, but look at the products, they're full of sugar and heaven knows what else. Whole grains are good, in the natural form, but how often do you see that out on the market. Go ahead and believe in it, doesn't bother me, I know better. I guess the whole Crossfit community is wrong oo, going much closer to a paleo diet.
Tim

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:02 pm

Looks like another food fight on this board.

Over the years, I have met individuals who followed a variety of diets fron vegan to Atkins who nevertheless managed to keep their weight under control. The only common thread between them is moderation.


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Post by Ryan A » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:32 pm

Also might add that just because the ACSM or any other cert says something is good doesn't really mean much. A lot of these organizations don't really require any high level knowledge or experience. Even those that require degrees in some kind of science like CSCS are going to be influenced by the big dollars lurking in the shadows.

I guess I am saying, it's nice to have a certification to back you up on paper but if you says pigs can fly, people should still call you on it.

In fact, the whole of capitol hill has excellent credentials but I am sure we can all find something fishy in just about every individual there.

If the ACSM has solid science to back up your claims, why dont you show us some. Other people already debunked your cardio only idea from science right here on this site; what can you give us?

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Post by Mog16 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:18 am

My general plan for this diet for my girlfriend is to not make it a diet but rather a new life style. I want her to achieve her body composition goals and then have the tools to stay there for as long as she choses to do so.
I know well that we could have her initial scale weight drop a lot faster than it is by cutting weights and doing lots and lots of 'cardio' type activities. But this path is a short lived one because she'd end up catabolizing all of her muscle and make her body run too efficiently on a reduced calorie diet and she'd hit a point where she'd stop losing weight and, despite her best efforts, probably start gaining weight again. This is why I have her lifting (not lame ass 20+ rep, pink dumbell lifting, but rather front squats and dead lifts) and lifting heavy so that she prevents catabolism and, if we're lucky, adds a little bit of muscle to keep her metabolism going.

A note on meals: I am having her eat every three hours (three primary meals with three 'snacks') between them

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Post by stuward » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:12 am

Even though there has been a lot of discussion about the food pyramid, etc, don't be put off in what you are doing. Everyone is different and no cookie cutter solution will work for everyone. The important thing in making lifestyle changes is getting to know your body and what works for you. Be prepared to experiment with new information, throw out what doesn't work and keep what does. Your girlfreind is lucky to have you as a guide. Good luck.

Stu

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Post by stuward » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:27 am

tyler wrote: the anti-grain movement is getting on my nerves. Whole grains are not bad for you.
I agree they are not bad and I eat them regularily. However when I was trying to loose weight cutting them out was a benifit.
tyler wrote: I was reading one of the articles on that website, the naive vegetarian...and one of the claims was just so laughable that I had to make a comment. It claims that almost all violent protestors are vegetarians and being a vegetarian makes u more agressive. He claims that there is something inside of us that when we are hungry, our bodies are telling us to go kill an animal for food. If that were the case, us meat eaters would still be violent by that logic- almost none in any industrialized world hunt ALL of their meat. My sister is a vegan and she wouldn't hurt a fly.
Maybe the causality is mixed up. It seems to me that vegetarians have firm convictions and that characteristic may lead some to be more agressive. I'm sure these are the minority. Most vegetarians I've met are very protective both of animals and weaker members of society and are fundamentaly non-violent. I didn't read the site you mention but the logic that you quote does seem quite ridiculous.[/quote]

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Post by TimD » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:58 am

MOG, I think you're eating plan is a good oneModeration, etc is the key I think. I just got my hackles up when some person made a blanket statement that the food pyramid was basically, "the holy grail: without taking into consideration the other aspects of why it's up there. A lot of people shed fat using different diets, but they all have commonalities, beginning with lyfestyle. This article sums it up best, at least in my opinion.
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... habits.htm
Tim

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opinions

Post by gishmage » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:39 am

Everyone else has stated their opinions, so I'll throw mine in as well. :)

My favorite site for nutrition info:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... amids.html

That's the Harvard School of Public Health. That page discusses the deficiencies of the USDA Food Pyramid (odd that the organization in charge of promoting Agriculture in the US puts out a document saying what people should eat...seems like a blatant conflict of interest). There are other pages there talking specifically about carbohydrates, protein, fats, etc., everything has references to scientific studies. I'm not sure it's been updated since 2005, but that's still fairly recent.

My thoughts: the Food Pyramid made a lot of compromises since it was designed in committee. You can think that the compromises were either because of special interest groups, or you can think that the committee was trying to get something that more people would actually use to make dietary choices. Either way, you end up with recommendations that are not ideal. I don't think the Harvard pyramid is perfect, but it is MUCH better.

Finally, I agree with Stephen. You could eat twinkies and Coke, and as long as you do it in moderation (count calories) you could lose weight. Of course, you set yourself up for other health issues, but you would lose weight.

Just my 2 cents.

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Post by tyler » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:03 am

stuward wrote:
tyler wrote: the anti-grain movement is getting on my nerves. Whole grains are not bad for you.
I agree they are not bad and I eat them regularily. However when I was trying to loose weight cutting them out was a benifit.
tyler wrote: I was reading one of the articles on that website, the naive vegetarian...and one of the claims was just so laughable that I had to make a comment. It claims that almost all violent protestors are vegetarians and being a vegetarian makes u more agressive. He claims that there is something inside of us that when we are hungry, our bodies are telling us to go kill an animal for food. If that were the case, us meat eaters would still be violent by that logic- almost none in any industrialized world hunt ALL of their meat. My sister is a vegan and she wouldn't hurt a fly.
Maybe the causality is mixed up. It seems to me that vegetarians have firm convictions and that characteristic may lead some to be more agressive. I'm sure these are the minority. Most vegetarians I've met are very protective both of animals and weaker members of society and are fundamentaly non-violent. I didn't read the site you mention but the logic that you quote does seem quite ridiculous.
[/quote]

Even though I just defended whole grains, I will admit it is easier to lose weight avoiding them. They don't fill you up as well as chicken or fish or something similar. And alot of grains out there on the market are unhealthy, because as someone else mentioned on this thread, they are filled with lots of sugars and other stuff.

But, that being said, I like my wheat toast in the morning with some peanut butter on top. Or I like a bowl of oatmeal. Sometimes I like to eat sandwiches. The last thing people should think of is that a sandwich is unhealthy because of the bread.

I think the problem with our society today is the fact that we are more sedentary than our ancestors, who worked out in the fields or whatever 16 hours a day. Grains make alot more sense then- they provide alot of energy and if u work all day, its easier to burn that off. But, in our society today, we don't need to eat as much as people did back in the past. But, our evolution hasn't figured that out yet, so hence the problem with obesity. Our bodies are telling us to consume because it doesn't know there is a readily available food supply (at least, here in america, and other industrialized nations). So now we have to fight our own evolution as a species- and a lot of people are losing that fight.

And about the whole vegetarian/vegan thing.... I am sure there are violent veg's in society. But just because there are doesn't mean there is something wrong with vegetarianism. I don't like it any more than anyone else if I am walking down the street and some annoying protestor thinks I am a bad person because I like to eat chicken or something. But there are plenty who don't go protesting everything- but as u said, some are incredibly strong with their convictions, and so they do so. I think I was more annoyed because it said that most protestors are vegetarians, because I would certainly like to know where he got that. How about abortion protestors? Or pro-gun advocates? Or better yet... illegal immigrants, and those who protest them? I think the guy kinda forgot that more people protest than hippies who don't have anything else to do with their time.

And finally...yes...as someone said, moderation is the key. I've known fat vegetarians and fat uhh...carnivores. I've known skinny ones as well. There is no exact when it comes to diet, or exercise, just what works best for the individual.

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Re: opinions

Post by CJ Waid » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:37 am

gishmage wrote:Everyone else has stated their opinions, so I'll throw mine in as well. :)

My favorite site for nutrition info:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... amids.html

That's the Harvard School of Public Health. That page discusses the deficiencies of the USDA Food Pyramid (odd that the organization in charge of promoting Agriculture in the US puts out a document saying what people should eat...seems like a blatant conflict of interest). There are other pages there talking specifically about carbohydrates, protein, fats, etc., everything has references to scientific studies. I'm not sure it's been updated since 2005, but that's still fairly recent.

My thoughts: the Food Pyramid made a lot of compromises since it was designed in committee. You can think that the compromises were either because of special interest groups, or you can think that the committee was trying to get something that more people would actually use to make dietary choices. Either way, you end up with recommendations that are not ideal. I don't think the Harvard pyramid is perfect, but it is MUCH better.

Finally, I agree with Stephen. You could eat twinkies and Coke, and as long as you do it in moderation (count calories) you could lose weight. Of course, you set yourself up for other health issues, but you would lose weight.

Just my 2 cents.
True, that pyramid is much more like the way I actually eat. Increasing the amounts of Mono & Poly's.

I like that, Thanks for posting that site, never seen it before. I like it a lot.

My points wasn't that the food pyramid is perfect, no one can say what the best way to eat for someone is, BUT, it is a heck of a good starting point. From there education on further aspects of nutrition can start to take root. Like the poster of this thread said, he wants this to be a lifestyle change for his girlfriend, and as all of us know, lifestyle changes are highly dependant on educating ourselves as much as possible about all aspects, whether it be exercise, or nutrition.

The food pyramid is a good example of a decent way to eat, that harvard pyramid resembles closer what someone who has educated themselves on the benefits of certain fats, and the actual needs of an active adult.

I will rescind to that pyramid, that is a heck of a lot better.

My original point was that you should eat a balanced diet, favoring quality carbohyrates, and moderation all around.

Most people drink coke by the 42 oz bucket, and supersize everything, and God forbid you leave one french fry uneated... ya know... I use to be that way myself, smoked a lot of cigs too, took a lot of time, energy, and failed attempts to change to finally make the change stick.

The MOST important aspect, I think, in weight loss and lifestyle change is accepting the fact that you might not pull off an overnight change that will last forever, it is usually the failed attempts that finally add up to the point where we get sick of failing and finally have enough conviction to succeed.

Aside from rambling, Yeah, I like that harvard pyramid.

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Post by Ironman » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:43 pm

I really don't think you could loose weight for very long on a Twinkie and coke diet. Or anything else where you just reduce calories. Because of the law of conservation, your body will keep adjusting your metabolic rate down. It will eat up as much muscle as fat too.

That's why from a raw in/out equation, it looks like cutting calories and doing cardio is the way to go. However, because of the way digestion works, how hormones interact, and the way metabolism is adjusted, it just doesn't work that way.

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Post by stuward » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:04 am

CJ Waid wrote: I use to be a fairly strong powerlifter by any standards, now I am a little skinny weak running guy, I've been through the whole spectrum.
Calvin

I responded to a query on EliteFitness from a girl who is naturally muscular and would like to get thinner. I suggested long distance running and high rep bodyweight exercises. You seem to have experience with this. Can I pass on your e-mail to her in case she needs further direction?

Stu


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