Helping My Girlfriend Lose Weight

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:19 pm

When you say cutting out carbs does that mean down to 0 or close to it? Because nobody is suggesting that. Cutting them down real low is a very good fix for high blood sugar. Metformin is good, but only as an addition to the diet. Insulin is just a downward spiral for type 2's. It will just keep getting worse and they will just need more and more of it. Considering carbs is where most blood sugar generally comes from, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't a good fix.

Now a type 1 on the other hand is a different story. That's normally an autoimmune problem that damaged the pancreas so it is not functional or produces little to no insulin. Then your response to carbs and insulin are going to vary a great deal from person to person. It is a balancing act that requires frequent testing of blood sugar. At any time the type 1 may need to eat something sugary or inject insulin to keep blood sugar at good levels. That in addition to being your own pancreas so to speak.

So I guess maybe you don't understand that type 2 is a completely different problem all together.


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Post by CJ Waid » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:39 pm

Dude, are you trying to make me look stupid or something?

Yeah, I know the difference, and type 1 is always a disfunction of the pancrease, not usually, but always.

Yeah, I know the difference, as a matter of fact... Never mind.

I'm not posting on this particular topic anymore, this is what I hate about the internet, people look for any opening to attack.

You have a sliver of knowledge, but want to be the smart guy, go ahead. enjoy...

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:37 pm

CJ Waid wrote:I'm not posting on this particular topic anymore, this is what I hate about the internet, people look for any opening to attack..
Posters on this board are more interested that the readers of this thread - who are far more numerous than the posters - are getting useful and accurate information. Disagreeing with a post is not an "attack", unless it is accompanied by abusive namecalling.

You stated earlier in this thread that mog16's girlfriend should focus solely on cardio for weight loss, and skip weight training altogether. While cardio is important, it doesn't raise a person's base metabolic rate much. This is especially true if you're doing the long slow distance type of cardio. Building more muscle, on the other hand, will raise BMR over the long haul. A higher BMR burns fat 24/7, not just while you exercise.

Nearly every personal trainer at my gym has success stories of getting women "cardio queens" - who spend hours on the treadmill with little change in their physiques - to lift weights and change their body composition.

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Post by CJ Waid » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:52 pm

I know I said I wasn't going to post here again, but this is a little different.

I am a trainer, I have a lot of success turning those Cardio Queens into Ripped Chicks, with and without weights, the reason that those Cardio Queens aren't losing weight has nothing to do with them not lifting weights...

Your metabolic rate is directly related to your bodies size and composition, mixed with activity level, and food intake levels and types.

In other words, if you take that same cardio queen and have her turn the dang intensity up on the ellipticle, BAM, she starts losing weight...

It's all about thermodynamics when it comes to buring fat, I'm not talking about the caloric diet part either, I am talking about Calculating weight loss through VO2 regression equations...

1 litre of O2 liberates about 5 kcals, either way you look at it, it's all about liberating as many kcals of stored energy as possible, fat oxidation occurs at a higher level during cardio, you can't argue that, therefore the reason that those Cardio Queens don't lose weight isn't because they aren't lifting weights, it's because they have Lowered their O2 requirement for the submaximal work load that they ALWAYS work at, Day after Day... So, if they turn up the intensity, they begin to need more O2 to maintain the higher work load, THEREFORE THEY BURN MORE CALORIES AGAIN.

The 'after burn' from Cardio is higher than weight lifting too, check it out, Guidelines for Exercise Testing and Prescription, 7th ed.

It's also not that high anyway...

The higher metabolic demand from lifting weights is no where near what most people think, keep in mind, most of those muscle fibers that are experiencing hypertrophy are type 2's.... ummmm back to the whole energy cycle thing...

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Post by Ironman » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:38 pm

There is a mountain of research showing just the opposite. There is plenty on this site. I think there is some listed in the ACSM books. Which I have a couple of them. I thought about getting my cert, but I just couldn't figure out a good way to make money at it.

Also there is noone attacking here. We are just posting our disagreement just as you are.

I wonder if there is some kind of personal trainer propaganda school where all these ideas come from. It would explain a lot.


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Post by stuward » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:05 am

CJ Waid wrote: In other words, if you take that same cardio queen and have her turn the dang intensity up on the ellipticle, BAM, she starts losing weight...
You hit the main point right here. It's the intensity. it really doesn't matter whether you weight train or do cardio, if it's not intense, you will not lose fat.

Most conventional cardio is long, relatively slow and doesn't work. Most weight trainers go to a gym and do a few isolation moves at a level where they don't really work very hard. Neither will do anything.

Both cardio and weight training can get your metabolism pumping but you need the intensity.

I don't know why you discount the afterburn effect. It's really the only thing that works and there is more than one way to get there.

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Post by CJ Waid » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:47 am

I'm not completly discounting the afterburn, I am saying that it doesn't have that great of an impact on your total caloric expediture...

For a bout of resistance training, the Resting Met Rate is only about 100 kcals over the next 24 hours (total), and it is transient, it leaves after that point.

The afterburn for cardio is only slightly higher.

Now, yeah I agree that the additional muscle will raise the metabolic rate, Fat Free Mass does that, BUT, that is provided that you are adding only fat free mass...

As far as this guys girlfriend goes, what I am suggesting is cutting out the resistance training for the FIRST couple Micro cycles of training, just do the aerobic/cardio at the gym, with some intensity... PUT A STRONG FOCUS on adding activities throughout the day, aside from working out at the gym, walking, biking, swimming, etc... play basketball, whatever, she will burn far more calories, it is more focused on creating a total lifestyle change, AND THEN... add the weights in a little later, once she is an 'active' person.

Most people go to the gym, work themselves to death, then go home eat and sleep, lay around... THEY ADD activity into their day by working out, then SUBTRACT activity because they are tired from what they did at the gym...

I AM NOT totally discounting any of this...... what I am saying is the focus could be better spent on creating a lifestyle change, something outside the gym to compliment the effort in the gym, WAIT... how about if the gym compliments the lifestyle instead of the other way around... more activity throughout the day... that is what I am getting at.

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Post by TimD » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:57 am

The cardio CJ is describing is closer to what I would term HIIT. Not a bad idea. Weights, probably even a better idea, done intensely. as
described here
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539
Note, he is NOT promoting long rest breaks. he is making weight training INTENSE in terms of very short rest breaks, hybrids and complexes. Notice also that this article is loaded with references, and I'll take Cosgrove's and Clarence Bass's views over others.
Tim
Last edited by TimD on Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tyler » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:37 pm

I think the main thing is just TOO exercise and cut down on your diet. Sure, long distance slow paced cardio might not be the best way to lose weight, but don't discount cardio completely. I am new too this board, but I am a pretty avid runner, and NOTHING is more intense than when you go long distance as fast as you can. Sure, weight training is more intense for about 10 or 15 30 second intervals, but after about thirty mins of running as fast as you can run 30 mins, when your heart feels like its about to explode, and your leg muscles and brain are just telling you to stop...that is intense. Someone hit the nail on the coffin earlier, when they said your workouts have to be intense. I couldn't agree more.

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Post by Ironman » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:06 pm

cardio and HIIT are icing on the cake. Start with weights and clean diet. Drop carbs/calories a bit and add a little HIIT any time it stalls. Don't add regular aerobic type cardio until you are workout several hours a week. This is the basics of the weight loss formula.

There was a link to a T-nation article by Charles Poliquin about that on here somewhere. I have a book where someone else is talking about that too.

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Post by stuward » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:15 pm

That was probably Alwyn Cosgrove, the article Tim tried to link to earlier: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539

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Post by Ironman » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:22 am

Oh yea, it was. Alwyn Cosgrove is another guy I get a lot of my information from.

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Post by TimD » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:59 am

Poliquin did write a book on the subject, "manly Weight Loss" I believe. It was based on full body quick paced (non stop if possible) circuits, done alternating upper and lower body exercises, like the old PHA (peripheral heart action) system of the 69;s,
Tim

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Post by hoosegow » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:25 am

Many of us weren't alive in the 60s, Tim. ;)

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Post by CJ Waid » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:37 am

True that tim.

I am an avid runner too, I ran 15 miles the day before yesterday, and 2 miles yesterday, today I am going to swim a couple miles, I am very active outside of the gym (I'm a full time personal trainer, so it is easy to get my weight routine done everyday)... Anyway, yeah, nothing like running or swimming to really kick your ass.

When I warm up in the gym, I always spend 5 minutes on either the Bike or Ellipticle (pulling & Pushing with my arms to make it move, not relying on legs)... I set the intensity up to the point where my heart rate increases to 85-90% of my VO2max. Normally I am riding the Bike at a low RPM, but I have the intensity up so high most people wouldn't be able to move the peddles.

Then I hit the weights, HARD.

I usually run 4-5 hours BEFORE, 3-4 hours AFTER I work out with weights, so I have time for a full meal cycle between.

Right after I run I slam an Orange Juice, or eat some fruit, to replenish Gylogen Stores, which prevents my body from breaking down proteins for energy.

Then I have a little protein, enough, but not overkill...

I gain strength like mad, to give you an idea... I hold 90 lb dumbbells in my hands and do walking lunges for 45 feet AFTER doing super heavy squats, ass to the grass, and keep in mind I smoked my legs on the bike for 5 minutes before my work out...
I do balistic jumps, jumping and landing in a squat and immediately jumping again (jumps in space) with 90 lb dumbbells in my hands.

I don't overkill the protein, there is no need. I rely mostly on replenishing my Glycogen stores within 1/2 hour after completing exercise sessions.

As far as cardio, pick an amount of time that you have, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 minutes and hit it as hard as you can, Even if you only do 5 minutes, you can get an awesome workout, You just have to make sure that you have the intensity up so high that you can barely do 5 minutes...

Like 100 meter sprints VS distance running...

Shorter Bouts of Cardio at higher intensities increase your ability to do WORK (VO2max).

BUT, long durations at lower intensities will eventually add up to the same caloric expediture as what you would need to provide the energy for that 5, 10 minutes of super high intensity...

SO.... it goes either way, HIGH intensity is the only way you will IMPROVE your ability to do WORK though (VO2max)

There are some benefits to lower intensity, first it is easier, second it burns more fat directly (while you are actually engaged in the activity)< BUT, if at the end of the day you are in a negative energy balance your body will release energy from fat stores (PROVIDED you have adequate nutrition intake that day).

So basically, either way works... High Intensity increases your VO2max, whereas Low intensity will help you burn fat and be conservative (so if your not perfect on your nutrition, you can burn more fat using low intensity, because you don't have to worry about your body breaking down lean mass if you have inadequate nutrition, but that could happen with high intensity, if you don't eat right.

OK, LONG ENOUGH, sorry for clogging the thread up.


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