Brain Washing--"The Perfect Push Up."

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Kenny Croxdale
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Post by Kenny Croxdale » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:16 am

ironmaiden708 wrote:Ok I do agree with you but there is a benefit to owning pushup handles.
I noted in my post that it has a place in one's training.

However, there is nothing "perfect" about it.

The problem is that people always want to know they they are buying the best piece of equipment. I deal with that everyday when selling fitness equipmenet.

The truth is that the majority of fitness equipment in the same price range is equal. The same can be said about shoes, etc.

What makes one "shoe" better than another is that it fits you needs.
But it's a load of $$$$$hit that people will ever look like that by doing pushups. It will make you stronger, but not like that, that ad on their website reminded me of watching a bowflex commercial. There only credentials for the handles was a "Navy SEAL Platoon Commander", which means theres no science to back there claims. If anyone is active in the military, let me know if they issue you perfect pushups with along with your clothes so you can become jacked and unstoppable on the battlfield
.

Bowflex...Great example. Those guys are one of the masters of marketing. In the past, I've sold Bowflex (Nautilus) products.

The quality is lacking. The service is even worst.

Gear Trends Magazine (Retail fitness magazine) conducts surveys of products. Over the last three years, Nautilus/Bowflex has won the "Worst Service Award."

So, when you do have a problem with any of their products...and I guarantee you will...good luck on getting it taken care of.

Kenny Croxdale


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Post by Stephen Johnson » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:10 am

The device seems to be well made and useful in an exercise program. The brain washing is that the "perfect pushup" by itself will turn the user into an Adonis like the model on the web site ad. No way!

It will have its day in the sun, only to fade when it exhausts its pool of buyers. Do they still advertise the Ab Wheel?

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:16 am

My dad got a bowflex accually. Two years ago, he got it thinking that I would use it in conjunction with what I do with all free weights. I did use it for one excercise for about a month which was cable flyes. I didn't like it that I could use 200 lbs of resistance with the POS but dumbells I was doing about 50lbs. I never use it now, I hate it. That was pretty much the most dissapointing gift that my family got. I guess I don't have to worry about servicing it since it never gets used/ rarely does.

When buying equiptment to ad to my collection I buy mainly based on how functional it is. The store I buy my stuff from is called Pacillo's and they have basically 3 qualities of equiptment. Lower and higher end commercial and some residential equiptment.

I brought of keys fitness preacher curl attachment which it was the most expensive one. But the other 2 had small surface area to do the workout on and the padding was just terrible in it.

But I also got an Ironman ab board which wasn't the most expensive. It didn't go up the highest or had the best workmenship but it had a handle at the top of it so I could do more exercises and so if I was to fatigued to do a full situp to get myself off of it I wouldn't have to slide off it (which that has happened).

I've got my complete home gym setup posted in the lounge, I think it's pretty good/complete for my needs besides the addition of dumbells.

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Post by pdellorto » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:09 am

Ironman wrote:I almost got 43.
Time to work your one-arm pushups! :D


Bodyweight exercises are fine - they're compound exercises generally, require lots of stabilization, don't require lots of gear, etc. You're totally right about them not scaling, though. A bench press can always be challenging to your maximum strength. A pushups is only challenging to your maximum strength for a while, then you get strong enough to get them off easily and it becomes endurance training (or metcon, if you're doing them Tabata style or in circuits). Then you need to change the technique - move the hands in or out, do them with feet raised, do hand-stand pushups, etc. Weighted exercises scale easily - just add more weight...bodyweight exercises, especially pushups, are a pain to scale up...going from regular pushups up to handstand pushups increases the force you need to move the body, but also changes the exercise from a pushup to an inverted shoulder press.

It does pain me to see people who can't do a single good pushup (no piking, no inchworming (belly sags), halfway down) who want to bench press. It seems like they're getting ahead of themselves, and missing out on building up stabilizing muscles they'll need on other exercises in the bargain.

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Agreed

Post by Onlyethic » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:13 am

I agree with pdellorto on this... if the pushup is too easy, make it harder.

It's almost like saying the bench press sucks because 100lbs is no prob (though i recognize that analogy is a bit off).

T or fly pushups, weighted, one-arm, planche, and quarters are pretty awesome. (Ok, I can't do the planche, but it looks awesome.)

And on the knuckles is great, especially on a hard surface.

It's no replacement for a bench, clearly. But with a bench press it's amazing-- try dropping down after a bench or tri pulldown for a set of push ups.

And I find tempo is important..something like 2011 (or 2311 if you want to feel some burn).


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Post by Matt Z » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:31 am

Honestly, I don't see much point in including push-ups in my program. True they do work your core, but so do squats, deadlifts, push presses, bent-over rows, chin-ups, etc. Meanwhile, I'm already benching for chest, so I don't see what additional benefit I would get from doing them. It would be like doing bench presses, declines and chest dips all in the same workout.

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Post by stuward » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:44 am

They are useful for a warmup, light days or as a drop set but in that regard so is a light barbell set.

I am under the impression that there is some advantage to shoulder integrity but I'm not sure. It's also a back exercise but doing a plank is probably just as good.

Stu

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Post by Matt Z » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:06 am

Hmm ... For shoulder stability I'd go with Dumbbell Bench Presses. With these you have to control to seperate weights, so they're much more difficult than a push-up.

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Post by Matt Z » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:07 am

Same goes for overhead dumbbell presses.

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Post by Matt Z » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:11 am

PS.) A Bowflex could be very useful ... in outer space with zero gravity. Here on earth I think I'll stick with free weights though.

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Post by KPj » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:36 am

For an experienced trainee, or anyone who can do push ups well, you shouldn't even think of it as a chest exercise. It's a scapulae/upper back exercise. Working stability in the scapulae, rotator cuff, and trunk. It's not going to make you big or strong (arguably), but it will play a part in keeping you healthy.

one of the reasons I include it in my program is actually to BALANCE horizontal pressing. Well, open vs closed chain movements. Point being, unless you struggle to do standard pushups, you shouldn't think of them in the same vein as bench pressing, be it with a bar or DB's. And, for all the good push ups do you, it's hardly a lot of trouble to add in a push up variation at the end of 'one workout per week'.

There are many other ways of course to get the same 'core' benefits (such as planks as was mentioned), but for a movement that is so convenient especially, there's not much that beats the push up for the upper back and rotator cuff function and stability

LOL - funny coincidence just happened, I received the latest Eric Cressey newsletter, which had this point in it, from "Brijesh Patel",
1. Include Push-ups at least once a week

The classic push-up seems to be have lost and forgotten with the number of new cable machines and lack of loading that is associated with the exercise. There’s no external loading involved so surely it’s too easy, right? Wrong, we should always be able to handle our own bodyweight before jumping to external loading with bars, dumbbells, and using cable machines. The push-up is a fantastic closed-chain total body exercise that works shoulder stability along with trunk stability and can be done in a variety of ways. Play around with different hand positions, tempos and surfaces to change it up.
Also, there's a very simple way of making it a little more exciting for those of you who can't focus on exercises without ading as much load as possible! Jumpstretch bands - turns it into a completely different exercise! YOu can use them for loads more than push ups so deffinitly a worthy investment regardless.

KPj

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Post by magicdad » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:16 am

Okay, after reading these posts I figured I'd toss in my 2 cents as well.

To the original poster, I agree with you about the ads regarding the Perfect Pushup. They are incredibly cheesy. While I also am in the practice of routinely avoiding the As Seen On TV! crap, I bought this product anyway out of curiosity, and because I had a gift card to waste at Big 5 (lol).

It's only been about a month now, but I have to say that so far I actually like the Perfect Pushup. I'm a middle-aged guy on a fairly basic maintenance program, so I don't have the same needs as some of you hard core bodybuilders. For you, I can understand why push up handles would be a waste of time. But for most, such as me, I believe that giving in to the occasional 'gimmick' can sometimes serve a positive purpose. I perform DB bench press regularly, rotating my hands on the up and down motion. This has proven to be much more tolerable for my somewhat vulnerable shoulders. The Perfect Pushup simulates this action, and therefore offers a variation to the bench press, which was another of my objectives.

I'm no personal trainer, but I would have to respectfully disagree with the comment that a push up is an upside-down bench press. I understand the analogy, but I'm currently alternating between the two and to me they clearly work the muscles in a different way. And both have their own variations to further separate them - bench press with different weights and pushups with different widths for your hands and angles for the fulcrum (your feet). I'm on a progressive program, increasing the weights throughout the week, so when it comes time to do pushups I increase the reps and/or raise the feet position, thereby simulating the increased difficulty with the DBs. Works for me.

As with any routine, equipment, program, etc. it's all a matter of whatever works for the individual. My philosophy on working out is that the best exercises in the world are the ones that you're willing to do (and stick with). If a gadget like this one motivates you to use it and get results from it, I'd say it definitely goes into the beneficial category, no matter how ridiculous the ads are.
Last edited by magicdad on Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by KPj » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:35 am

Magicdad - good post :-)
but I would have to respectfully disagree with the comment that a push up is an upside-down bench press.
My favourite part, lol. Its absoloutley not an upside down bench press. I know this primarily because Bench pressing played a huge part in screwing up my shoulders where as push ups have played a huge part in fixing them!

I couldn't help myself but respond as soon as I read "vulnerable shoulders". I just wanted to add some quick points that may be useful for you,

1. Using a Neutral Grip (hammer grip) may feel even more shoulder friendly than the rotating movement (normally).

2. 'Floor pressing' is a good option to atleast do for some phases. The restricted range of motion gives your shoulders even more of a break. This and the first point could be done at the same time.

3. Same respect as above - the closer your elbows are to your body, the more 'shoulder friendly' it is. My upper arms are practically 45 degrees from my sides when I bench, as opposed to parallel (or 90degrees).

4. you already mentioned variations but I just wanted to emphasise the Push up Isometric hold (just a hold). You hold the position for say, 2-3 sets of "30 second holds" - or whatever you can manage. Also, the further towards the floor you hold it, the harder it will be. It's a just a nice healthy variation that you may not know about and might like to give it a try. It really wakes up all those sleeping stabilisers and teaches them to do their job properly, basically!



They're just quick points fr you, i'm not saying i think you should change anything, just good to know. Especially if you ever feel that somethings just not right, you can back off a little more without having to do nothing at all.

KPj

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Post by magicdad » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:24 pm

Thanks, KPj. Yeah, I'm with you on all the points you've made here. You might call me the Hammer Grip King. I hammer gripped the DBs for a while, then recently tried rotating my hands horizontally on the way up, then back to neutral on the way down. Seems like it gives a fuller , more complete workout, and at the same time does not bother my shoulders at all. As I mentioned, that's what interested me in this Perfect Pushup gizmo.

I'll check out the pushup isometric hold. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:14 am

A Bowflex could be very useful ... in outer space with zero gravity
Could you imagine the day that Nautilus creates a commercial showing a astronaut using a Bowflex on a shuttle? I think they would sell like crazy. Everyone would be thinking..."wow, if astronauts use it then it must be a great product". I think i'll send them an email presenting that idea...


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