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pdellorto
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Post by pdellorto » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:30 pm

XDaveX - I read this through but I didn't see a mention of your goals. What are you training to accomplish? Add muscle, add strength regardless of muscle, get ripped, get more endurance, whatever...if you have an exact goal it'll help everyone give you solid advice. Not that they haven't given you solid advice already.

If it's in here but I just missed it, my apologies.

I'll echo what someone said already - if you want to push hard, do some heavy squats or deadlifts. I love deadlifting heavy, it makes me really happy...but I'm at my happiest when I finish the last rep because it's really crushing work.


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Post by Stephen Johnson » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:23 pm

pdellorto wrote:XDaveX - I read this through but I didn't see a mention of your goals. What are you training to accomplish? .
After re-reading the thread, my guess is that he's trying to get in shape without aggravating his back injury. His dropping down from 250# to 220# shows that he's having success in doing so.

Although free weights are the best option for improving functional strength, they aren't the only option. While Dave should be encouraged to use free weights, he shouldn't be condemned if he doesn't - as long as he's making progress.

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Post by Dave X » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:22 am

nice name

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Post by XDaveX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:06 am

pdellorto wrote:XDaveX - I read this through but I didn't see a mention of your goals. What are you training to accomplish? Add muscle, add strength regardless of muscle, get ripped, get more endurance, whatever...if you have an exact goal it'll help everyone give you solid advice. Not that they haven't given you solid advice already.
All the above, I’m in the gym everyday so, why not?
Stephen Johnson wrote:After re-reading the thread, my guess is that he's trying to get in shape without aggravating his back injury. His dropping down from 250# to 220# shows that he's having success in doing so.

Although free weights are the best option for improving functional strength, they aren't the only option. While Dave should be encouraged to use free weights, he shouldn't be condemned if he doesn't - as long as he's making progress.
I dropped down to a mushy 220 prior to starting this routine. I got down as low as 210 then shot up to 230 with the newbie mass gain, I have settled in at a solid 220. I'm making great progress with this routine.
Stephen Johnson wrote:After re-reading the thread, my guess is that he's trying to get in shape without aggravating his back injury.
You hit the nail on the head bro. Not reinjuring my back is my #1 goal with my routine. I’m not looking to compete; I’m not looking to get Arnold huge. I want to feel and look good and get the most out of the time I’m in the gym.

I would like to stay within the scope of my routine and tweak the reps (5x5?) and exercises.

I think the muscle groups I’m working and the days I’m working them is pretty good. Remember Friday is just a make-up or slacker muscle day. We can take Friday off the list if you wish.

Great input guys! I apologize I know I can be pretty thick sometimes.
Last edited by XDaveX on Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:21 am

I don't know about that. I've seen worse splits. Still not very good though. It looks like you pulled the workout from musclemag. That workout isn't even good for bodybuilding as far as natural training and mass gains. That workout you posted is for advanced bodybuilders, using gear and doing a precontest muscle separation type workout, tweaking size ratios and other finishing touches. If you do a split, you should split by movement, not random body parts. You also don't need all the isolation.


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Check you eletist ego at the door

Post by XDaveX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:35 am

The actual split I got was designed specifically for isolation to help me concentrate on one muscle group a day so that I could learn the diffrent exercises and how to focus on each muscle. I screwed it up and added the second muscle group three weeks ago myself to increase the volume, I tried to uses a push one day pull the next thing.
Ironman wrote:I don't know about that. I've seen worse splits. Still not very good though. It looks like you pulled the workout from musclemag. That workout isn't even good for bodybuilding as far as natural training and mass gains. That workout you posted is for advanced bodybuilders, using gear and doing a precontest muscle separation type workout, tweaking size ratios and other finishing touches. If you do a split, you should split by movement, not random body parts. You also don't need all the isolation.

Come on, you can do better then this.

Ciao.
Last edited by XDaveX on Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:29 am

If you insist on using machines for legs at least substitute leg presses and/or hack squats for leg extensions. These are no substitute for squats, but at least they're compound movements. Leg Extensions just plain suck.

PS.) You can keep the leg curls for hamstrings, but try Glute Hamstring Raises also if you access to a bench.

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Post by KPj » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:32 am

I can't help but think that, you have a whole bunch of guys on here with lot's of different experience, backgrounds, training style, methods, goals etc who could probably debate with varied opinions and knowledge about different aspects of muscles, strength and general performance enhancement all day long. Yet, everyone agrees that your training with too much volume and use too many machines and isolation exercises........ therefore...
Come on, you can do better then this.
I don't really know what else you want....
never hit a gym until 3 months ago.
I think this is the reason why. You need to understand that when you start training, you will see results with just about any routine... Give it a few more months and see what happens...

I'm not trying to be too critical, I was exactly the same myself when I started. I also trained under the wing of a 'bodybuilder' - i'm guessing he's not actually a competing bodybuilder as i've not seen many that would be fit for being in the army, or tying their shoe laces etc The guy I know is the same, weekend warrior / bodybuilder.

Anyway, I trainined like he trained and for about 1 year - 1.5 years, the results were fantastic and I used to get on my high horse at anyone who criticised muscle splits (check my first few posts on here, lol). Anyway, i ended up banged up with loads of imbalances, a chronic injury, and spent 9 months rehabing it. The guy who trained my is still injury free, 15 years on from when he started...

I dare say my split could of been better, but generally, body part splits make no sense at all. There are people who can and do get away with them, but i would be confident in saying that someone with a history of back problems is 'skating on thin ice' by doing a muscle split and using loads of machines. Think outside of the mirror muscle box. There are well over 400 muscles in your body, it's the smaller ones that you don't know about that keep you healthy, and it's those same small muscles that are comprimised by poor training programs... By training in a functional movement based way (compound movements, basically), your muscles and body will work as it should, they do the job there supposed to do, instead of being taught bad habbits by over using machines that have a fixed range of motion...

I think the way forward for you is training around your back issue. One thing I want to point out is that if you have previously injured your lumbar spine, the absoloute last thing you want to do is the leg press.... I will go into more detail with that if need be....


KPj

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:40 am

Also, I don't like the idea of lifting 5 or even 4 days straight. Why not lift on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays with Wednesday's and weekends off? For example, I used to use this split, which is similar to what your doing now.

Monday - Chest & Triceps
Tuesday - Back & Biceps
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Delts & Traps
Frideay - Legs & Calves
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Rest

This isn't really ideal of course, and I very much prefer my current Leg/Push/Pull Split. However, it would at least give you a chance to recharge mid-week.

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Post by XDaveX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am

Matt Z wrote:If you insist on using machines for legs at least substitute leg presses and/or hack squats for leg extensions. These are no substitute for squats, but at least they're compound movements. Leg Extensions just plain suck.

PS.) You can keep the leg curls for hamstrings, but try Glute Hamstring Raises also if you access to a bench.
No access to the glut-ham raise bench.

I can cut out the leg extensions all together if that’s truly the case.

I'm already doing the sled it's all I have access to at the moment, squats and dead lifts are pretty much out of the question at the moment until I get more confidence in my lower back. I can throw in some weighted lunges I guess.

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:47 am

PS.) Even Weider recomends doing no more than 12 sets each for biceps and triceps, and the Weider system is considered by most to be high volume training.

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:00 am

Try adding DB Lunges or Step-ups after Leg Presses. These shouldn't bother your back, since you'll be using relatively light weight, and you don't need a spotter, since you can put down the dumbbells at any time. Likewise, you may want to try Single-leg SL Deadlifts. By training one leg at a time your back only has to support half as much weight, while your hamstrings still get a workout.

A sample leg workout might look like this:

5 sets Sled Leg Presses
3 sets DB Step-ups
3 sets One-leg SLDLs
3 sets Leg Curls
3 sets Calf Raises

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:13 am

"I think the way forward for you is training around your back issue. One thing I want to point out is that if you have previously injured your lumbar spine, the absoloute last thing you want to do is the leg press.... I will go into more detail with that if need be.... " - KPj

I think I know what you're getting at. You have to be very careful with leg presses. If you place your feet too high on the sled or lower the sled too far, you pelvis will roll forward and your lower back will round.

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Post by XDaveX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:16 am

KPj wrote:
Come on, you can do better then this.
I don't really know what else you want....
Ironman wrote:you should split by movement, not random body parts.
Explain the split by movement please.

We all started somewhere.

This is the kind of input I'm looking for KPj. Tell me what I'm doing wrong and suggestions on what I might want to do to fix it.

In no way am I trying to pushing this split on anyone. I know there is something bigger and better out there. That's why I am here.
Dave

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Post by XDaveX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:21 am

This weekend I'm going to take everything we do here, put it together and start first thing Monday.


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