Crossfit's 120

[pdellorto]

Looking at Beast Skills:

http://www.beastskills.com/MuscleUp.htm

"Is there anything that weighted chin-ups/pull-ups and dips won't do? In my opinion, working these exercises heavy is the best thing you can do in pursuit of any of the muscle-ups listed. Some may say that just working one half or another won't help in building up strength for the transition."

So, I think weighted chinups and dips are a good idea. Overweighted negative-only chinups are often recommended, too.

You also might want to ask on the crossfit boards....people there think about "how do I progress to a muscle up?" all day. Lots of people who've done it, so you can get solid advice on how to get there.

[Onlyethic]

cool...thanks. I'll be getting my weighted backpack out again, maybe add some pounds.

One thing I'm currently doing that *might* help on muscle-ups is this strange form of dips (don't know the name or if it has one). Instead of doing dips on parallel bars, I'm basically doing it on a single bar.

I stand facing the bar, put hands shoulder width apart. Start from an up position (would be the top of a muscle up) and then lower myself as far as possible, trying to get my chest level or even below the bar. Then power back up (the transition of the muscle up, just with a lot more advantage than starting from pullup position).

Not sure if it's helping. I am hurting in new places though.

[Ironman]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I believe that cardio works all those things you just stated as well.

I disagree. Most cardio activities will not do any of those things. Fat loss to a small extent but that's about it. You have to push your self into the anaerobic range to increase lung capacity. Interval training, complexes, crossfit stuff and all that sort of thing burn 9 times as much fat per calories expanded compared to standard cardio. Cardio is just endurance training for the heart and lungs. That's really about the only thing it's good for. But you can work heart and lungs with crossfit and interval type stuff too, so you don't really have to do any regular cardio if you don't want to.

[ironmaiden708]

Not unless you do sprints...which most definitelly anaerobic

[stuward]

Ironman was talking about conventional cardio. Sprints fall into the interval category. That's not what most people think of when they think of cardio.

[daniel4738]

Ironmaiden.

The difference between Crossfit and Cardio, is that crossfit can be considered as 'Power Endurance' training.

Crossfit will help develop the ATP+CP energy system and the Lactic Acid+Muscle Glycogen. Post exercise, Crossfit develops the Aerobic energy pathway (by stressing the other two so that your resting energy utiliyes aerobic system more). A good explanation is on the brianmac or exrx page.

What Crossfit doesn't do is develop capiliary density in the muscles, recruitment of white muscle fibres, the ability of your body to utilize the aerobic energy system during exercise, VO2max, and anything associated with endurance training.

My opinion of crossfit is that it's good for developing an overall base, but like any training tool it will stagnate and you have to consider training.

Afterall, if you want to obtain maximal strength gains, then do a strength program :)

[Matt Z]

I think crossfit has a lot of good ideas. However, I don't agree with everything they do. Also, I prefer to design my own program, rather than follow someone elses.

[TimD]

I think this thread has pretty much gotten off the original topic, and has been hi-jacked, but it is interesting. More about crossfit in general.. I think you're right Matt, XFIT has a ton of ideas, some of which (METCON) I've been incorporating for years before I'd even heard of Crossfit. While some think you have to literally do it as written in stone, I don't think that anyone that could think for themselves would agree with that. The best program out there is one that works for YOU. Take ideas from anywhere, and don't be afraid of mixing and matching Within the crossfit community itself, there are the power oriented types that don't think there is enough ME (Max Effort) strength work thrown in, so they mix and match, i.e. ME,WOD,ME, REST, WOD, ME,WOD, REST as just an example. Also, if you do the reading in their other sections, they actually say to accompany it with something you like, be it PL or other sports, or gymnastics or tumbling practice and skills. It's a good all around set of IDEAS (the WODs being an example of how to apply them) for non-specific strength/conditioning, and these ideas can be combined with specifics for YOUR GOALS.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Tim

[pdellorto]

Someone just posted recently about weighted pullups and dips instead of the 4:1 sub over on the crossfit boards. Onlyethic, was that you? If not, it's worth a look. Check the "Workout of the Day" board...I'd post a link but I can't get to crossfit from this PC right now.

On the "written in stone" comment, note that one person in that thread immediately replied with something like "Why don't you just do the 120 pullups and 120 dips." That's fairly common. I mentally killfile those answers...the first few responses to any "Can I do this different thing?" questions usually include a few of those "Just shut up and do the WOD as written, 3 days on 1 day off" responses. Or "Strict Zone" if it's about recovery, diet, or tiredness. The more flexible sorts do give some really good information, though.

[Onlyethic]

Nope, wasn't me. I read the thread though...thanks.

Interesting. Basically what I'm getting from this is to continue to do weighted pullups (though add weight since sets of 5 reps at the current weight could be harder); weighted dips; work towards muscle up.

I'll probably throw in days of pullup volume work as well.

[TimD]

Yeah, IMHO, if you want to work into muscle ups, thats what I would do rather the 120 thing. But that's me. Also, muscle ups can be done on bars, you should be able to find some at verying heights at almost any public playground. You can start on the low ones and use a feet assist type of attack, then start with a higher one with a jump assist, Another option, although not as good, is to go to a lat machine pulldown. Take a shoulder width grip, pulldown, and instead of stopping, whip the elbows up at the low pull position and transition into a pushdown keeping the bar close to the body.
As to the bars, they have a really neat set of video's on this over on U-Tube, I think it's called "Thug Workout". LOL, got a bunch of young men from the inter city going to town on thebars at a local playground.
Tim

[Onlyethic]

sounds good...I'll try to start that tomorrow. The bars I do pullups on have various heights...see how the progress goes.