Can anyone help me with my imbalances (picures included)

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward, jethrof

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:12 am

I think you answered you own question. Bench pressing and pull ups both internally rotate the shoulder. If Rows are hard you need to work at them more. If you posterior chain is weak you need to deadlift more. If you have a hard time sitting up straight you need to pay attention to your posture more.

I agree with Pete that those authors can probably help you out but you already know most of what they are going to say.

Stu


Onlyethic
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:05 pm

Post by Onlyethic » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:53 pm

I just got back from the gym where I did deadlifts, good mornings, posterior delt work, etc-- all of which are exercise types that I have never really been dedicated to. So, hopefully it'll correct itself.

Interesting about the pull-ups, that it causes internal shoulder rotation. Makes sense, now that I think about it.

I'll work on the problem areas for a few weeks before talking to the posture pros. Thanks for the link though.

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Re: KPj, please

Post by caangelxox » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:07 am

Onlyethic wrote:I'm going to jump in to this-- thought about starting a new thread, but my questions are very related so...

KPj-- Read your posture comments and went over the T-Nation links (I admit, not very well, but I realized there is too much background info I don't know for me to jump into those without some prior reading).

I looked in the mirror, front-wise and profile, after reading all this. I discovered to my shock and amazement, that I'm nearly a knuckle-dragger:

Meaning, my palms are not completely back-facing in a relaxed posture, but they're on the way. My shoulders are partially rounded, not terribly, but feels more as if they're being pulled downward.

And, my right arm is slightly longer than the left (though this might be unrelated).

I often have hip pain (discomfort, really) just from walking, and notice that walking, and even standing, my weight displaces outward, causing my feet to roll out, as if my legs are trying to be bow-legged.

I also have a very hard time sitting up straight. Seems as if that's a midback weakness.

I know that I have posterior chain weakness-- especially in hamstrings and lower back. Not as sure what's going on up top, though: I have a relatively easy time with push exercise (bench press) and am also quite strong an top-heavy pulls (pull ups). Things like bent over rows kills though.

I might be answering my own question here, but wanted to here what you think. I might get some posture photos done quickly to get a better assessment.

Thank muchly
I used to have trouble sitting up straight until my chiropractor fixed me. I also used to have rounded shoulders and one shoulder higher than the other and one leg longer than the other. Not anymore. my last visit was monday and everything stayed in alignment from the last visit and is getting better because I stretch now and stuff. I also don't sleep on my stomach anymore (worse thing to do ever is sleep on stomach..messes up posture bad). I sleep on my side now. I recommend seeing a good chiropractor (someone that is popular/your friends know or whatever) that knows "FULL BODY ADJUSTMENTS". Very important! My chiropractor knows 110 moves.

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:16 am

My problem is opposite as far as rowing, benching, and pull ups. I could do about 6 pull ups max (bodyweight) and I can row more than I can bench. I used to neglect bench press, but I don't anymore now.

What does it mean if I can row a lot better than I can bench and I cannot do many pull ups? I am 105 pounds.

also my upper trapz are stronger than my middle/lower trapz is most likely why my upper trapz are tight. I need to work on some T's, Y's, W's, and L's.

Here is my routine plan as far as hopefully helping to fix my posture. Bad news: need to fix my anterior tilt and tight upper trapz. Good News: one hip is not higher than the other (I was able to fix it somehow by doing hip corrections, hip hikes, and stuff on the short leg all the time and when I cross my feet, I had my longer leg over the short one on purpose a lot. My chiropractor said I can do 2 legged exercises now.


Based on what I created here (based on all the shoulder movements and whole body movements and also my anterior tilt and tight upper trapz and whatever else you see (other than the one hip higher than the other which isnt there anymore (picture was like 2 weeks ago), is there anything I should take out and do later when I fix my anterior tilt and tight upper trapz?

Note: first set of the Bench Press and Incline Press, and DB Rows are all single arm on the weaker arm first to make sure I am doing the weight that my weaker arm allows with good form. Same thing with lower body on the unilateral days (weaker side first).

Workout A
Monday/Thursday
Hip Dominant (1): M = DB King Deadlift |Th = BB Deadlift
Hip Dominant (2): M = DB Single Leg RDL |Th = BB RDL
Vertical Pull: M = Pull Ups OHG/UHG |Th = Pull Ups OHG/Neutral Grip
Horizontal Push: M = Bench Press |Th = Push Up & Incline Press
Horizontal Pull: M = Bent Over Row |Th = Inverted Row
Scapular Retractors: M = Face Pulls |Th = Rear Delt Fly
Scapular Depressors: M = Prone DB Y |Th = SD on L.P Machine
Serratus Anterior: M = DB Supine/Prone |Th = Incline Shoulder Raise
External Rotation: M = Low Pulley ER/DB Lying ER |Th = T & W

________________

Workout B
Tuesday/Friday
Quad Dominant: T = One Legged Squat & Lunges | Friday = DB Squat (2 sets front squat, 2 sets regular)
Vertical Push: T = One Arm Shoulder Press |F = Shoulder Press
Scapular Elevators: TF = Scapular Wall Slides both days
Wrist/Forearm/Elbow Work: M & Th = DB W/F Curls, Bicep/Tricp Curls for elbow
Lower RA: TF = Single Leg Raises both days
Rotation: T = Cable Push/Pull & High/Low Chops | F = Arms Extended Hip/Torso Rotation
Lateral Flexion: T = Side Hip Thrusts Bench | F = Side Plank with Reach (rotation)
Stabilization: T = Glute Bridge & Side Plank | F = Bird Dog & Plank


______________
Workout A Sets/reps & between sets plan
*Hip Dominant 1 & 2 = 3x8-12 and Vertical Pull between the sets. Pull Ups OHG between HD1 and PUll Ups UHG between HD2
*Horizontal Push and Pull (Pull is done right after each Push set except for the Incline Press, which the Serratus Anterior Incline Shoulder Raise will be right after the Incline Press on Thursdays) = 3x8-12
*Scapular Retractors 2x10 and External Rotation 2x10 each. (ER set right after SR set)
*Scapular Depressors 2x10 and and Serratus Anterior Mondays 2x10

__________________
Workout B Sets/reps & between sets plan
*Tue = QD One Legged Squat & Lunges with One Arm Shoulder Press between sets 2x10, Fridays = Quad Dominant with Vertical Push together 2x10
*Scapular Elevators 3x8 with Wrist/Forearm/Elbow work 3x10 each between sets of SE
*Lower RA 2x15 with Glute Bridges Stabilization (2x8 hold on 8 30 sec) between sets of Lower RA
*Rotation 3x8-12
*Lateral Flexion 2x10-15
*Stabilization 3x30 sec holds

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:34 am

caangelxox wrote:What does it mean if I can row a lot better than I can bench and I cannot do many pull ups?
I'm not sure about the row/bench thing. I can one arm row more than I can one-arm bench, or even dumbbell bench if you count each dumbbell. I can do 3x5x40kg of one-arm rows but I can't even barbell bench 1x80kg. My weighted pullups and chinups are around +25kg over my bodyweight of 83kg, too. So I'm in the same boat there. I suspect part of my problem is my build, part of it prior injuries that restrict my pressing strength, and part of it is improper form. I'm working on part III now, and hope to fix parts I and II in the process. But yeah, if I could bench what I can chin or row, I'd be happy camper.

As for pullup reps, you just need to work on your strength endurance for the move. If you can do 6, you're clearly strong enough to do multiple reps. You just need more stamina. Three ways I've seen people improve their numbers:

- by "greasing the groove" - a method popularized by Pavel Tsatsouline. Basically it involves doing lots of sub-maximal sets every day of a given exercise to improve your body's strength and efficiency in that exercise. You can probably google it, when I did I turned up this:
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/69/

- the Recon Ron pullup method, aimed at people wanting to max their military fitness tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recon_Ron_Pull-up_Program

- a couple guys on the Crossfit boards started doing a Tabata once-a-week of a given exercise they want to improve. The version I last saw was 1 exercise, 6 rounds, 20 seconds work/10 seconds rest per round, going all-out from the start (i.e. max reps, expecting a rapid drop-off). I was doing that for pushups and dips when I injured my shoulder, but I was seeing overall improvement doing it (occasional week-to-week drops, but overall I made gains).

Really, it's just bumping your numbers. Once you've gotten one pullup, getting more is just a matter of improving your stamina.

Hope that helps,

Peter


KPj
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:49 am

Post by KPj » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm

Onlyethic - yeh, sounds like you have answered your own questions.

Balancing out your routine may be enough but it depends how far on your imbalances have developed.

remember that you will have a deficit to make up - you've been doing too much pushin', so you need to do 'too much' pullin' for a while...

RE the neanderthol articles - the first one can definitely be off putting, but you can get away with just following the steps i.e. draw a line here, if X leans this way, put a tick in the Y column... You should end up with some clarity after that by the end of that...

Just thought I would add the following, though...
also have a very hard time sitting up straight. Seems as if that's a midback weakness.
I'm guessing a 'hard time' sitting up straight means that either you experience pain or discomfort by just getting into 'good posture', or you can't sit in good posture for long. This is very common, especially in my work place which is full of desk jockeys, myself included. I was the same myself - if i retracted my shoulder blades, it was painful. The reason I highlighted this is because it would indicate that you have very tight internal rotators and very weak middle and lower traps (as you said - mid back). The keyword is 'very'..... do you have a foam roller?
I often have hip pain (discomfort, really) just from walking, and notice that walking, and even standing, my weight displaces outward, causing my feet to roll out, as if my legs are trying to be bow-legged.
I highlighted this for the same reason as the sitting up straight thing. If your knees are pointing outwards it means you have tight external rotators in the hip - which is normally what 'compliments' tight internal rotators of the shoulders... the pain / discomfort makes it sound quite extreme so again I would just emphasise the need for soft tissue work / foam rolling...
I just got back from the gym where I did deadlifts, good mornings, posterior delt work, etc-- all of which are exercise types that I have never really been dedicated to. So, hopefully it'll correct itself.
Sounds like you have a plan so I wouldn't want to try and take you off it just now. Try changing the exercises as you are doing and see how everything feels. If there's no improvement you will know that you need to address a lot more than actual exercise selection / push v pull / internal V external rotation...

The way you would want to approach this if digging any deeper would be to find all the tight overused muscles and foam roll them and stretch them and find all the weak muscles and strengthen them ALOT.

For people with posture problems, I can't recommend foam rolling enough. I would say that if I had to pick one thing that contributed the most to my posture being fixed then it would be foam rolling. Followed by dynamic movements (to get me moving efficiently) and some static stretching (to get tissue length back in those overused muscles.... These all get covered in my 15ish minute warm up, before i've touched a weight.

KPj

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:13 pm

what do you guys think about my weightroom program? More focus will be on my posterior chain and on fixing my anterior tilt and tight upper trapz (most likely do to upper trapz being stronger than middle/lower trapz. I used to do shrugs a lot a while back).

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:23 pm

I like it. Let us know how you make out with it. Is Softball in season now where you are?

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Post by Matt Z » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:27 pm

I've always been able to barbell row more than I can bench press, and chin/pull-down more than I can military press. I think this is pretty normal, and only a problem if the difference is very large.

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:11 pm

stuward wrote:I like it. Let us know how you make out with it. Is Softball in season now where you are?
Final tryouts are tuesday-wednesday. I dont have any workouts planned on wed, but on tuesday I am planning a home workout and that is going to be after softball practice when I get home. I would not workout before practice even if its 2-3 hours before. I want to be perfectly ready for the tryouts and give all that I got without any fatique in my legs, torso, or arms.

The sucky thing though is that my swing sucks, so if we do any hitting..I dont know what I am gonna do. I have been working on my swing like crazy this winter break, but my hips are not doing what they are supposed to do. maybe because of lacking strength somewhere..I dont know. My shoulders (no matter what I try) want to start the swing before my hips. My hips should start the swing. This is JC tryouts by the way.

I hope as long as my fielding goes good and that no balls go over my head and I dont miss any and that I dont get nervous, that I can make the team no matter how struggling my hitting is. I wish I knew a hitting instructor around the area.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:41 pm

Well, the best of luck. When swinging, just pretend the ball is an ex-boyfriend.

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:34 am

caangelxox wrote:what do you guys think about my weightroom program?
Actually, I haven't commented on it for a few reasons.

- it's pretty complicated. I'd need a table to see what is done which days for how many reps. It's hard for me to parse it out reading.

- it's got a lot of sets and reps. Far more than I'm comfortable doing at any weight. Since I don't lift that way and haven't for a long, long time I don't feel especially qualified to comment.

- it's your program. Ultimately, if it's working for you (both physically productive and mentally satisfying) I think it's a good program. It's more than I would do, but I may not be a good model - my posture is worse than yours, my sport is different, and my age and goals and equipment availability is very different. So I think if you're reasonably happy with it, it's a good one. You do seem to have every possible articulation well covered.

Have you been doing this one? I know you were assembling a workout for the off season...is this what you've been doing? How is it working so far?

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:25 am

I have not really stuck to the one I have created a while ago due to posture problems that I found out I had when I started seeing the chiropractor. I am trying to get rid of my learning disability right now (trying to figure out what I may have first) and am also trying to get rid of my anterior tilt. I am trying to do 2 things at once right now. Also, softball tryouts are all this week. I was going to start the workout program I posted in here today, but the fitness center at school was closed and they decided to close it for the remainder of the semester until the spring! Now I have to workout at home, so no cable work for me. Either dumbbells or barbells now! no more pull ups til the spring, have to change to lat pulldown. this sucks.

All I am just going to work on this winter until the spring semester is all posterior chain to fix my anterior tilt and upper trapz tightness. I need exercises like deadlift, RDL, TYWL (middle/lower trapz) and also the shoulder exercises I have included in here. Also, I will do some quad dominant work (single leg) one legged squat to balance out my quads.

I just decided that I will just do this right now working on my glutes, hip, hamstrings, abdominals, lower back, and middle/lower trapz. I can do all this at home.

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:38 am

Well, do the best with what you've got handy. Whenever I'm groaning about the lack of boxes, bumpers, rings, etc. in my gym I remind myself that plenty of people got plenty stronger and tougher than I did with much less gear than I've got.

So you should be fine. Just do what you can with what you've got. Balance out a full-body routine with extra work on the problem areas and you should be fine.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:12 am

Get some tubing or elastic bands to do your cable work with. There are huge varieties of resistances avaiable so you can progress and do different types of exercises. They are also inexpensive. Get a doorway pull up bar. Someone your size and weight can get a friction fit type that doesn't mar the woodwork and can be removed when not in use. A medicine ball and a jump rope are also useful. Sandbags are great for strength exercises. You can make your own if you want.


Post Reply