Isokinetic exercise, can you fake it?

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amivan
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Isokinetic exercise, can you fake it?

Post by amivan » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:02 pm

I was wondering if you can replicate the effects of isokinetic training equipment (which to my knowledge is expensive) by trying to maintain a steady speed when doing isotonic exercises. Anyone have any idea of this?


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Post by stuward » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:46 pm

Isokinetic exercises have a constant spped but the resistance is variable to match the strength of the person. Going slower than possible to maintain the same speed will not give you the same effect. What will work is doing all your movements explosively so that you are using maximum force at each point throughout your movement. This way the speed is not steady but the force is maximized throughout.

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Post by amivan » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:30 am

Even through the eccentric movement? Because that just seems like it would be dropping the weight or falling depending on what you're doing.

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Post by stuward » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:04 am

Eccentric movements should always be done under control.

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Post by shaf_43 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:52 am

amivan,
I'm going to ask what you are training for. Isokinetic exercises really have no sport specific carry over. All an isokinetic dynamometer will do is control the speed of the limb movement. The really expensive ones can provide force as well as speed (velocity) control for eccentric studys. They are used quit a bit in muscle testing for baseline and after training, (as well as for other research) but as far as for training purposes I never saw much use for isokinetic's I'm sure others will disagree.


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Post by amivan » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:22 pm

shaf_43 wrote:amivan,
I'm going to ask what you are training for. Isokinetic exercises really have no sport specific carry over. All an isokinetic dynamometer will do is control the speed of the limb movement. The really expensive ones can provide force as well as speed (velocity) control for eccentric studys. They are used quit a bit in muscle testing for baseline and after training, (as well as for other research) but as far as for training purposes I never saw much use for isokinetic's I'm sure others will disagree.
I'm not training for anything per se. Just looking for stronger, better, faster.

But isokinetics according to, i think it was a paper i saw in the ACSM journal (i wish i could remember when/what it was) provides the greatest increase in strength (in comparison with isometrics).

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Post by shaf_43 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:32 pm

Well if you find it i would love to read it and eat my words if i have to. Isometric exercises don't have much carryover to athletic movements either so...if your looking to get bigger faster stronger you might want to look in another direction. I believe that there are several good workouts for such things posted on this site.

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Post by amivan » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:42 pm

shaf_43 wrote:Isometric exercises don't have much carryover to athletic movements either so.
Sorry I thought I also said "and isotonic". I've been looking for it and the more I do the more I think I just dreamed about it but I'll keep looking when I remember to.

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Post by shaf_43 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:25 pm

Sometimes all of those terms seems to slur together...i usually have to google them just to be sure before posting and i have a exercise science degree...no worries

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Post by amivan » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:33 am

shaf_43 wrote:Sometimes all of those terms seems to slur together...i usually have to google them just to be sure before posting and i have a exercise science degree...no worries
tell me about it, im working on mine right now

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Post by Ryan A » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:47 am

Just an FYI, isometric exercises or partial isometric exercises (such as pausing during a rep) can be beneficial for athletic movements. They are most useful to teach prolonged force output at a point of weakness (ie the sticking point) during a lift. Often athletes are all power, meaning they move through the sticking point by speeding up the bar before they reach the sticking point, and then manage to move through it, slowing down, but not reaching a complete stop.

Often, when an athlete gets enough weight on the bar that there power can't carry them through the finish, they just bomb out on the lift. On a maximal attempt, you should be able to strain against your sticking point in the 5 second range. If you reach it and lose all your steam in around a second, isometric work should be in your future.

This isn't to say you could not make progress without isometrics, but they are a tool in the toolbox that can be useful. Since they exist, no sense ignoring them.

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Post by amivan » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:07 pm

Ryan A wrote:Just an FYI, isometric exercises or partial isometric exercises (such as pausing during a rep) can be beneficial for athletic movements. They are most useful to teach prolonged force output at a point of weakness (ie the sticking point) during a lift. Often athletes are all power, meaning they move through the sticking point by speeding up the bar before they reach the sticking point, and then manage to move through it, slowing down, but not reaching a complete stop.

Often, when an athlete gets enough weight on the bar that there power can't carry them through the finish, they just bomb out on the lift. On a maximal attempt, you should be able to strain against your sticking point in the 5 second range. If you reach it and lose all your steam in around a second, isometric work should be in your future.

This isn't to say you could not make progress without isometrics, but they are a tool in the toolbox that can be useful. Since they exist, no sense ignoring them.
You mean, lets say i'm doing a bench press with a barbell since there's only one right way to do that, that as I lower the bar and stop it short of touching me and then press it back up, that, at that bottom point I should be able to hold the weight there for up to 5 seconds and then press it up?

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Post by shaf_43 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:24 pm

Ya...but unless you are training for gymnastics or weight lifting i really can't think of a reason to do them...but you are right they are a tool and have a place in training (very small)


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