over all athletecism

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If steroids were legal would you take them?

Poll ended at Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:13 pm

definitely
0
No votes
maybe
5
28%
no
13
72%
 
Total votes: 18

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corless319
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over all athletecism

Post by corless319 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:13 pm

I'm 5'8 208 i want to be 230 and then get ripped maybe 215 but at my weight right now i feel extremely light on my feet. I know too much weight is bad for joints tendons etc but is there a limit to what i can do or how big i can get?I still have crazy hops and know if i played bball i could eventually dunk. I feel tiny i guess i have bodybuilder mentality "I'll never be big enough" but im not sure how to get big? I usually do sets like this first set 12 reps second set 10 reps third set 8 reps gradually increasing the weight and i do that with usually every muscle group. Is there a better way to lift and get bigger and or stronger? I have gained roughly 47lbs since i starting seriously lifting about a year and a half ago. I want to bust my ass in the gym and see results. I do. But i would like to know if there is anything else i can do. Mind you im on a low income having a family and all supplements are out of the question but i do get a good amount of food. Also food and hardwork and supposed lack of cardio got me where I am now. I have researched weight training eating etc and they say cardio takes too much out calorie wise from the growth potential of muscles then i cut cardio out i blew up. I want to blow up more. I would love to hear some other success stories and see if people used different workouts reps etc. I havent done cleans and or dead lifts although i squat do leg extensions leg curls and calf raises and all that? would dead lifts benefit me a lot more? Sorry it so long haha I'm extremely serious and want to be even more successful. thanks


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Re: over all athletecism

Post by Stephen Johnson » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:11 pm

corless319 wrote:I'm 5'8 208 i want to be 230 and then get ripped maybe 215 but at my weight right now i feel extremely light on my feet. I know too much weight is bad for joints tendons etc but is there a limit to what i can do or how big i can get?
When Arnold first came to the US to compete, he was the biggest bodybuilder on the stage in most of his contests. But when he went against Frank Zane - a much smaller man - he lost handily. In bodybuilding, size isn't everything.

I once read an article by a psychologist who called size obsessed bodybuilders the mirror opposite of anorexic women. A man who is 5'8" and 200# plus isn't tiny. If you honestly feel that way, and you are even toying with the idea of getting involved with steroids to get bigger, stop and seek help.

And to answer your poll question, steroids ARE legal if they are medically prescribed for a condition. The risks of using them without prescription is too much for me, even if they were legal over the counter.

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Post by TimD » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:27 pm

to the Poll question.I'm neutral on this point. I was competing in HS and college sports back in the 60's and early 70's. I hate to say it guys, but steroids started becoming abundant and easy to obtain at the latter end of that time frame. Prescriptions were fairly easy to obtain. Add to that nonprescription use wasn't a feloney back then. Some of our weight throwers were on, but they all took the prescribed doseage levels and were monitored. I never saw any ill effects with those I knew were using, however, there was a HUGE ethical question brought up, which leg to the then ADFPA (*American Drug Free PL Federation ") being formed in 79, because of all the rampant use and no testing in the other feds. I personally never did, but that was because my wrestling coach told all of us that if we did, and outgrew our weight classes, he would personally rip us a new A$$hole. If I was an elite level weight thrower back then, I dunno, I sure would have been tempted.
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Post by stuward » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:00 pm

Just for the record, I voted no, partly because for me I have no reason to, the other Tim alluded to, and that's ethics. It's like engines in Indy car racing. If you have no restrictions it gets out of control to the point that it's dangerous, so you need restrictions. Once restrictions are in place, to ignore them is cheating. I have a big problem with that. All competitors should be playing by the same rules. For non competitors, it's just unnessesary, so why bother?

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Post by Matt Z » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:46 pm

I answered no for two reasons:
A) It's not worth the risks and side effects.
B) I wouldn't get the same satisfaction from chemically induced gains as I do from natural ones.


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Post by ironmaiden708 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:56 pm

I could care less of the legality of it, if I want it I can easily get it by calling a friend. I have done nothing like that up to this point. I have 2 reasons:

1). I don't know enough about using to be comfortable with putting that into my body. Ignorance will lead to possibly abusing it which will give me the unwanted side effects.
2). At this point I am satisfied with building the muscle at the rate that I am currently.

I don't go for the BS that they show you on dateline with the 22 year old retard in texas who died from using it even though it was his fault. They fail to mention the million people who use it and don't have adverse health effects. Its a horribly biased subject that the media pounds into every body's brains. I compare this with the get all the calcium you possibly can craze, stay out of the sun because it causes cancer which causes vitamin d deficiency, I'm sure there is a 100 examples but I cant come up with any more at the moment.

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Post by pdellorto » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:59 pm

Your best bet to get bigger is "squats and food."

Squat heavy, eat a lot. The Rippetoe Starting Strength routine is based on this - do squat a lot, you eat a lot. Other starting routines are like that. You might be past "starting" and towards an intermediate level, I don't know. But all of the real "get big and strong" routines are centered on things like squats, deadlifts, cleans, bench pressing, etc. for a reason. You'll see weighted pullups but not so many lat pulldowns, you'll see squats but not leg extensions, you'll see benching and rowing but not so many concentration curls. This isn't by mistake...to get big and strong you need to do heavy compound exercises. To get strong even if you don't want to get big (I'm butting up against the edge of my MMA weight class now), you still work this way, you just don't pack in as much food...

You're going to need read a lot...the forums here are a good start. Look up stuff like the Performance Menu mass gain template, Madcow 5x5, the Texas Method, Starr's 5x5 routine, the Rippetoe Starting Strength routine. They're all aimed at getting strong and bigger in the process. And try narrowing your questions down a little, it's easy to answer. And remember if you stick a poll in your thread, most of the answers will be able the poll, not the thread's questions!

Peter

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Post by corless319 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:34 am

haha well i was just trying out the poll to see where people stand here on the whole steroid issue. Honestly I don't think I'd ever use them but if they were legal who wouldn't? I always think hmmm in pro football (nfl) people want to see bigger faster stronger guys if they made steroids legal to an extent put everyone on the same playing field it would be amazing. I believe in pushing the body to its natural limits for growth with out supplements although i am looking into them now cause i dont want to stop getting bigger. 5'8 and 207 is not small but its small to me i dont need "help" lol thats what i do to never stop trying i motivate myself with the mind set that its not good enough untill i hit my goal. Long story short i lift about 4-5 times a week i eat a lot and im trying to get huge. All natural. I don't want to stop gaining and I'm looking for an edge to gain a lot more. blah...lol thanks


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Post by KPj » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:13 am

I voted 'maybe', 'coz i'm neutral. Personally I wouldn't, i'm more interested in relative strength than size and i'm happy with what i've been achieving so far.

I can't help but think about the guys who are just born with much lower T levels than others, though. It's not their fault that they have really sh!t genetics. It certainly seems like a way to give everyone a level playing field, but then steroids aren't going to change bone structure etc so it wouldn't even it up completely, but it gives guys cursed with low T-levels a better shot.

TC, at T-nation has written a few articles on the subject and their pretty insightful. Testosterone is the hormone that drives us, gives us the competitive edge, makes us want to do more, get more, be better, or whatever. But similar to what seems to be the case with most things, you can take it to an excessive level, then it becomes dangerous and in an illegal and unregulated environment, the danger is all the more apparent.

I really can't remember where I read this, but I think that in Thailand, steroids are LEGAL, but protein powder is ILLEGAL. Whats the deal???

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Post by KPj » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:20 am

Just remembered, The Thailand Trilogy by Chris Shugart.

It's a pretty good read. If I remember correctly, it's more about Thailand in general than steroids.


http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460840
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460839
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459998

KPj

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Post by corless319 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:58 am

hmmm i wonder if i have excessive testosterone haha i wouldnt doubt it if thats what makes up someone competetive cause i read that males are their most competetive between the ages of 27 and 33 and im only 23 i would be someone most people hate if thats the truth lol I try to be the best at everything. Some people would call me an overachiver haha what ever. I'll check out those links now.

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Post by corless319 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:04 pm

damn kpj i didnt want a novel to read lol not to mention im at work and if a female walks by and doesnt like the way one of those female body builders bikinis look like i might get into trouble hahaha ill read though long long long articles

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:35 pm

but protein powder is ILLEGAL. Whats the deal???
Possible contaminants inside the powder? I think steroids should be legal in the US as well, it would be ALOT safer than people going to the black market to get their hands on it and possibly killing themselves due to how its possible contaminants/improper dosing/etc

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Post by corless319 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:06 pm

if steroids were legal i think a lot of thin kids would have more hopes of gaining size and what not the supposed hard gainers? yea I have heard a lot of negativity towards steroids so I'm kinda scared of it. Ironmaiden what are the negatives of steroids since your kinda an expert.

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Post by Matt Z » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:30 am

In theaory the people who would benefit most from steroid use are relatively advanced atheletes with high level of strength and muscle mass. This is because these atheletes have already reached the point of diminishing returns. However, it seems that many of those most interested in steriods are beginners and teens, those who would least benefit from them. Both groups are still capable of making major gains naturally. Meanwhile, teenage males already have very high levels of natural testosterone.


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