Warmup question

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bob
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Warmup question

Post by bob » Sat May 10, 2008 2:28 pm

I want to know if i need to do a warmup set for each muscle group? For example, if i have finished working my biceps and want to work my triceps, aren't they somewhat warmed up being the antagonist muscle for the biceps exercise?


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Post by stuward » Sat May 10, 2008 2:56 pm

I can't imagine why anyone would want to work triceps except after doing chest, in which case they would already be warmed up. However if for some reason you are doing just arms, no, working the antagonist will not warm up a muscle. You need to do a warm up set. This is one reason to do compounds before isolation.

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Post by amivan » Sat May 10, 2008 3:54 pm

you're best off doing some kind of cardio that warms up your body temperature (makes you sweat) for 5-10 minutes and then starting weight lifting

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Post by Ironman » Sat May 10, 2008 5:49 pm

I just start doing warm up sets. I see no need to warm up with cardio.

Sometimes you might do chest and back on 1 day, as in a primary upper body day and then do shoulder and arm isolation on another day. I usually like to do part of the leg routine on the isolation day. Like doing your squats with the upper body isolation and doing the rest of the leg routine on another day. If you are doing a 3 day split anyway. Or you might do horizontal chest and back with squats and calves one day and then put vertical chest and back with some isolation moves and deadlifts the second. Then you can repeat later in the week, or if you are doing a 3 day, the third day will be a full body day.


As long as you don't have a gunz day, it's ok.

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Post by pdellorto » Sat May 10, 2008 6:55 pm

Ironman's correct. Do some warmup sets of whatever exercise. I find it very helpful to do mobility drills first (like those Ron Jones ones I referred you to in the other thread), and some light cardio is good. Jumping rope is excellent, folks with C2 rowers swear by some rowing.

Get "warmed up" - raise your body temperature a bit, get everything moving, and then get lifting.


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Post by ironmaiden708 » Sat May 10, 2008 8:40 pm

Wouldn't cardio be good for a cold environment though? I know that my joints get very stiff when its cooler outside.

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Post by bob » Sat May 10, 2008 8:45 pm

I do about 10 minutes of light cardio before i lift just to get the blood flowing. I just wasn't sure about the warmups per exercise. I understand it better now. Thanks. I do have a question for Peter D. or anyone else who wishes to comment, about Ron Jones exercises. He lists quite a few shoulder exercises.(maybe 10?) I was curious if it would be overkill to do all of them one one day. They are only stretches, but i wasn't sure if there was any harm in doing all.

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Post by brook011 » Sat May 10, 2008 9:21 pm

Don't forget a day for the gunz.

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Sat May 10, 2008 9:23 pm

I've always viewed the purpose of warmup sets more to gauge your strength on a given day than as an actual warm up. You should be warmed up before you touch a weight. A little cardio, calisthenics or lifts with an empty bar (5 to 10 minutes) does the trick for me.

Some people who want to set PRs in every workout will do little or nothing before lifting because they think that activity of any sort will take away from their strength. Big mistake.

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Post by pdellorto » Sun May 11, 2008 2:54 am

Sorry, I replied a little too quickly. I do think pre-workout warming up is important...but that you also need to do warmup sets for your exercises unless you've basically warmed up for it already. You can check my log and see what I mean - I don't warm up for all my individual exercises. But I agree with Ironman that you should do lighter sets of the exercises you're going to do before you do them, at least for anything you'll do heavy.

But I do think you should get the whole body warm before you start lifting, even bar-only warmup sets. I don't think it's required, and not everyone does it, but I figure it's best to be prepared.

Plus I come from a martial arts background. Before I spar I do mitt work and bag work, before bag work is shadowboxing, before shadowboxing we jump rope. So progressively getting warmed up is something I always do.

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Post by pdellorto » Sun May 11, 2008 2:58 am

bob wrote:I do have a question for Peter D. or anyone else who wishes to comment, about Ron Jones exercises. He lists quite a few shoulder exercises.(maybe 10?) I was curious if it would be overkill to do all of them one one day. They are only stretches, but i wasn't sure if there was any harm in doing all.
You could do all of them, but I find it easier to do a small selection - 4-5 one day, switch them up from time to time (or even make A and B sets and swap them each workout...) No need to do all of them. I do about 20 different mobility and shoulder stability drills, but I don't do 20 per session, I do about 9-10 and I swap them around. I have a core few I always do (fire hydrants and clams for my hips, scap pushups and arm circles for my shoulders, band side-steps) and rotate the rest out of that selection.

Sometimes for "active rest" days I work my way through my copy of Magnificent Mobility and Inside/Out and do almost all of the drills over the course of about 30-40 minutes. Usually after that I rotate in a few new ones and rotate out a few I've done to death.

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Post by bob » Sun May 11, 2008 8:55 am

Good advice again. Thanks. Peter, are those two separate books you mentioned? I assume it's related to stretching?

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun May 11, 2008 8:59 am

It's still not clear to me that warm-up is all that important. I see lots of advice, and lists of benefits of warm-up, but rarely do I see people cite scientific evidence for their assertions. Some writers say something like "studies have shown" but don't tell you what studies. As a physician, I have a lot of experience with poorly-done, poorly-written, and/or poorly-interpreted studies. They don't always really support the conclusions that some people try to support with them.

I see some writers who say that "studies have shown" that muscle contractions are stronger at higher temperatures, but how much stronger? And at how much higher temperature? I'm left wondering. I have similar questions to the claim that connective tissues are more elastic or more flexible, etc. at higher temperatures.

But that is better than claims like "it gets your blood moving." That's nonsense! What has your blood been doing, unless you happen to be dead?

But what I really want to know, and I haven't seen this any where is outcome data. In medical studies, this is the ultimately-valuable study. Not how much will this food, or that activity or the other medicine change my lipoproteins, but how much does it change the incidence of coronary disease in a given population? Similarly, I don't want to see vague claims about what unspecified tissue temperature change will do for rat muscle in a petri dish, I want to know whether warm-ups that I can actually do in real life will change my chances of experiencing an injury, and if so, by how much. I want to know if warming up regularly will help me make better long-term gains in strength and endurance, whether or not it might make me incrementally stronger for the next half-hour. If anyone knows of such studies, please point me in that direction.

Having said that, I do warm up a little. I do some kicking and light (very light) cardio along with some stretching before I start lifting, and I lift a warm-up set at 50-60% of my planned work-out weight with each lift. I'm just not sure that is really helping me in any practical way.

By the way, I've done some on-line searching of the medical literature on this subject, but I find very little practical or outcome-oriented material. Nothing so far that answers the questions I asked above.

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Post by Ironman » Sun May 11, 2008 12:55 pm

I haven't seen any studies on it either. I do know that it does not effect my body either way. Because if I am going to be lifting pretty heavy, I do an extensive warm up. I work my rotator cuffs in a few different lifts. Having those warmed up and strengthened helps. It's more kind of getting them loose than warm. Then I warm up arm and shoulder muscles first before doing warm ups with the compound exercises. I lift heavy often enough that I don't really have to do rotator cuffs when I am not going heavy. When I am doing a 10x10 or something like that, I just do a couple warm up sets and then get to it.

From what I have found, the reason for warm ups is to get your body ready to lift heavier weights, so you go up in increments.

I agree with you, Jungledoc. There are lots of junk studies people use to push an agenda on people. Just look at the studies about fat starting in the 50's that mainstream diet recommendations are based on. Or the sodium ones. Some of it is people that are just so sure they can't be wrong, which is a poor quality for a scientist to have. Some of it also seems to be special interests. Like here in the US, the food pyramid is very much based on the corporate desire to sell people more low cost food with high profit margins.

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Post by bob » Sun May 11, 2008 8:17 pm

Jungledoc- Were you referring to my comment about "getting the blood moving" to warm up? As a layman, please enlighten me as to what physiological changes the muscles go through during this phase. I used that term for lack of a better one. Regards.


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