Power training

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slw0096
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Power training

Post by slw0096 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:26 am

I am still a bit confused how power training is done with low reps and low weight. I understand power training is done at 3-6 reps at 30-60% RM, but I am use to working in the 8-12 rep range for failure. So, what is the key for the power training.

I am currently working one set 8-12 reps full body work out 3 days a week. When I get 12 reps I move up 5-10%. I've been working out for 14 weeks. I changed my routine for weeks 9-14, and I'm about to change my routine again, and I'm considering adapting the Heavy, Light, Medium setup versus strictly doing 8-12 reps of what I can do. I'm looking to build strength/endurance but want to put power into it as well. Using the HLM, what would the strength/endurance routine be versus the power routine?

Thanks


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Stephen Johnson
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Re: Power training

Post by Stephen Johnson » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:59 am

slw0096 wrote:I am still a bit confused how power training is done with low reps and low weight. I understand power training is done at 3-6 reps at 30-60% RM, but I am use to working in the 8-12 rep range for failure. So, what is the key for the power training.
The key to power training is speed - you're training your muscles to apply as much force as possible as quickly as possible. You are not working to failure in power training. Indeed, you aren't really training in sets, but rather a bunch of singles.

If you want to add power training exercises to your workout, do them first in your routine. For example, do cleans before you squat or deadlift. But don't do cleans to the point where your squats and deadlifts start to suffer.

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Post by TimD » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:41 am

"I'm looking to build strength/endurance but want to put power into it as well. Using the HLM, what would the strength/endurance routine be versus the power routine?"

This is a bit vague. What exactly are you looking for? Here is what I would do, not totally understanding your question. For strictly a power type of thing, use all reps on all days (H,M,L) with CAT or compensatory acceleraion. This means the movement itself is done as fast as possible. Control it on the back though. On the light day, pick a weight that is approx 55-60 percent, and do sets of 2 or 3 reps with only 45 secs or so rest between sets. Kenny can give better examples of this.
Now, for strength endurance, I'd go a different route altogether. On medium day, maybe, if I were to try and insert it into your format, I'd go with more of an EDT approach *escalating density-trying to improve the amount of work in a given time frame).
different ways to go about it. One approach would be similar to the above, but taking a heavier percentage, like 70 percent or so, and doing 10 sets of 2 spaced 1 min apart working up to 10 sets of 3 over a few weeks. The other way is not to even worry about sets/reps. Bryce Lane wrote a nice article on this. Too bad EZ board messed things up and I can't access it any more. Take about 80 percent, set your timer for 20 minute, and start doing reps. Could be in blocks of 1-5, or singles, or whatever. Try to get 20 reps at least, other wise it won't be very productive. If you go over 50 reps total, then jack the weight next time out. If you do your reps with CAT, this can also be considered power training.
Tim

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Post by trainer Chris » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:48 pm

i have never heard of someone doing power movement with 30-50% of 1rm. that is retarded. you are trying to move as much weight as possible as fast as possible.

like SJ said do them first you will need the energy.

power trainig needs be be its own workout not incorporated into an endurance or strength routine. the power imporvements will imporve your over all strenght but if you try to go for endurance your body will overtrain very quickly.

be careful power training isnt for the un experienced. if you do one rep wrong its very easy to hurt yourself cause your moving so fast.

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Post by TimD » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:05 pm

Kenny, I'll let you take this one. Trainer Chris, you've never heard of Louie Simmons, and the Westside BB training principles. Also, do some reading by Kraemer, Flek. Stone, Berger.all exercise phsiologists.
TimD


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Post by amivan » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:48 pm

i reccommend this for power; http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=2082217
i've been doing a modification of that for a while and I can really feel the difference (i'll post mine at the end of this reply)
also, we produce the greatest power at the slowest speeds (b/c we're using >weight) so... that 30-50% thing is wrong


my mod on that.. well not really a mod.. i just don't do the isometrics/partials he suggests (though im sure it would help).

Deadlift/Incline DB Press/BB Bentover Rows
as many sets as I can consisting of 3 reps with a load on each one that's 80-85% of my 1RM (so a weight that normally, you can lift 4-5 times).
I like to go push, pull, legs. take a breather, maybe 10-15 seconds and then do my next cycle. Get 10 sets done for each exercise at the end of the 20minutes and you're golden.

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Post by scs217 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:00 pm

I don't know about producing maximum power at highest loads. I can DL 315lbs, but it takes several seconds to do; and by comparison the pull I taped over the weekend for an olympic clean generated about 1.2hp. Quick physics refresher, power is not work. Work is the force moved over a distance. There is more work for my DL than for my clean, but the clean is MUCH faster. Power is the rate at which you perform work. You generate the most power with lower weight because it is executed explosively.

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Post by stuward » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:17 pm

amivan wrote:... that 30-50% thing is wrong...
30% is the normal range for ballistic training, like medicine ball throws, jump squats, etc. It usually results in the weight separating from the hand or the feet from the floor. Peak power is often generated in the 30% range.

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/po ... ining.html

Olympic lifting is often in the 30-50% range. What's the ratio of your snatch to your deadlift?

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:17 pm

trainer Chris wrote:...that is retarded.
That's pretty harsh. Not a way that I would hope we would respond to each other.

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Post by scs217 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:22 pm

What's the ratio of your snatch to your deadlift?
My DL is 315lbs and my best successful snatch so far is 115lbs. There are still form limitations on getting the snatch right, so it is being lowballed. The snatch is 36.5% of my DL though.

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:24 pm

Strength training causes a neurological adaptation while hypertrophic training cause a metabolic adaptation. Here is a good link on what rep range causes what adaptation.

http://www.freedomfly.net/Articles/Trai ... ning29.htm

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:30 pm

But aren't "strength training" and "power training" different?

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:38 pm

Jungledoc wrote:But aren't "strength training" and "power training" different?
I honestly don't know. I assumed they were synonymous, but I'm not of that world of training. That's a question for TimD and the others. Personally, I've recently switched to a routine geared to improve strength. Physics tells us that Power is Work done with reference to Time --> P=W/T. In weight training, Work is the amount of weight moved. So every lift we do has a power rating. If you lift heavier weights in the same amount of time, then obviously power goes up.

But "Power Training" may mean something more like speed or ballistic training where they focus more on the Time aspect rather than the Work aspect? In the Power equation, if Work goes up then Power increases. But also, if Time goes down, Power also increases. So lifting the same weight faster is also an increase in Power.

Uh, TimD? Anyone? :lol:

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Post by stuward » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:52 pm

No, they're not the same but they're related. Power is strength applied fast. Power carries over to sports better than other fitness measurements. It also declines faster in middle age than strength does so it becomes increasing more important to train for power. Olympic lifts generate the maximum power. Several Crossfit and Kettlebell exercises focus on power as well.

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Post by Chris_A » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:56 pm

So “Power Training” focuses on Time while Strength Training focuses on Work. Thanks for clearing that up Stuward!


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