advice on my new workout routine

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lightningsix
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advice on my new workout routine

Post by lightningsix » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:29 pm

Hey fellas, I created my own custom workout routine and I was wondering if I could get some advice on whether it's well rounded or if I need more lower body excercises or any advice at all.... ~Thanks!


Day 1: Chest & Abs:

Incline Barbell press: 4 sets x 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
Flat Bench: 4 sets x 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
Cable Flyes: 4 sets of 15
Bodyweight Dips: 4 sets of 15-20 reps
Hanging Leg raises: 4 sets of 25 reps with V-ups: 4sets of 25



Day 2: Back:

Bent over rows: 4 sets 15, 12, 12, 10 reps
Seated Cable Rows: 4 sets 15, 15, 12, 12
1 Arm Dumbbell Rows: 4 sets of 15 reps
4 Sets of Bodyweight Pullups to failure


Day 3: Cardio:

Muay Thai training 8:30pm-10:30pm


Day 4: Arms & Abs:

All Supersets
V-bar pushdowns with straight bar curls: 4 sets of 15 reps each
Close grip bench press with hammer curls: 4 sets of 10 reps each
1 arm dumbbell extensions with 1 arm dumbbell curls
Abs: 4 sets of hanging leg raises with weighted crunches or situps to failure(superset)


Day 5: Legs:

4 sets of front squats, 12-15 reps.
4 sets of leg press, 12-15 reps (only prob is my current gym doesnt have one)
Leg extensions: 4 sets, 15-30 reps
Lying leg curls: 4 sets, of 15 reps
Straight leg deadlifts: 4 sets of 10. Dumbbells one week, barbell the next using a light weight to allow the hamstring to work harder then the back


Day 6: Cardio:

Muay Thai training 10:30am-12:30pm



Day 7: Shoulders & Upper Back:

4 sets of military presses, 8-12 reps.
4 Superset of front raises, 10 reps and lateral raises, 10 reps
4 sets of medium grip upright rows
4 sets of Bent over laterals, 12-15 reps. Using no more than 15 lbs to allow the rear delts to work and pause at the top for 2 seconds after each rep
4 sets of chin ups, to failure

*EDIT*
Do you think I may be over doing it with no inbetween day(s) of rest?


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Post by Ironman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:53 pm

It's maybe ok if you are an advanced bodybuilder. You should train for your sport and quit reading Flex.

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Post by lightningsix » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:12 am

Ironman wrote:It's maybe ok if you are an advanced bodybuilder. You should train for your sport and quit reading Flex.
Lol, you're right.
I like to think I'm intermediate but I kind of want to start over with a beginner to intermediate program to get back to the basics like
benching
squating
deadlifting
and rowing as well

Thinking of starting the rippetoe program or just making my own workout program and schedule.

Any tips on a good routine for upper and lower body workout excercises?
I would like to do:
Mon - Upper
Tue - Lower
Wed - Muay Thai
Thur - Upper
Fri - Lower
Sat - Muay Thai
Sun - rest

Just need advice on what are the best most effective excercises for upper and lower body in your eyes. I've been looking at a lot of different one's but I just want to make sure it's very effective and challenging.

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Post by pdellorto » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:48 pm

You've got like three threads going with different routines in them, I can't keep track of which one you're doing or which one is your current plan.

So I'll stick with the days lifted.

Your routine is pretty taxing, I think, especially if you're doing Muay Thai for competition. I've yet to see a hardcore MT gym that didn't demand lots and lots of work. So it can be hard to lift 4x a week, do MT 2x a week, and rest one day. Most weight routines assume you aren't doing MT, MMA, or another hard sport for a bunch of hours per week. It's easy to overtrain - just out-pace your recovery - if you're lifting heavy and hard and training hard all the time.

I found I did better with a little more rest, and I'd lift weights before my MMA classes. If your MT days are set, it might make sense to lift on those days before class. Yes, it's taxing, but you'll have more actual rest days. Just make sure to take a break between your workout and your MT, drink a protein shake, get some vitamins (have an orange or something...) and get refreshed. Emphasize technique work over "push yourself until you fail" work.

That kind of schedule would be:

Sunday - OFF
Monday - Upper
Tuesday - OFF
Wednesday - Lower, MT
Thursday - Upper
Friday - OFF
Saturday - Lower, MT.

Or you can swap them and do Lower on Monday and Thursday, Upper before your MT. Up to you. Just moving the days makes your workout days harder (MT and lifting together) but also gives you more total rest days to recover.

Just some food for thought.

Peter

(PS - Like the avatar. Spike Spiegel and his IMI Jericho 941 9mm, from Knockin' On Heaven's Door. Good stuff. I use Spike and Jet as practice models for my Japanese).

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You need focus...

Post by WSUdj_ExMet » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:44 pm

What are your goals specifically?
-Improve MT fighting?
-Increase muscular endurance?
-Increase strength/power?
-Increase speed?

Your rep range for exercises is all over the place. If you want to have good results train in a specific repetition range:

1-5 reps is for power
6-10 reps is for strength
8-12 is for hypertrophy (bodybuilding)
12+ is for muscular endurance (might be good for MT fighting)

This is mainly for your core exercises like Bench, Squat, Powerclean... machines and side exercises I would say use at least 10 reps. Ab and calf exercises don't even pertain to this range because they are trained differently.
Important: if you don't focus your repetition range your results will not be clear, the do a little of everything method isn't very effective.

If you make a clear goal then you can really detail your training and get great results at quicker time frames. So post a detailed goal.


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Post by Jungledoc » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:53 pm

I agree about the multiple threads. You seem a bit undecided. Sometimes every routine you read about sounds appealing, and just what you need. Get over that. There will be time for all kinds of routines in your lifetime. I don't recall if you stated specific goals for your training.

The difference between novice and intermediate lifter is not in how long you have been lifting, nor in how much you lift, but by whether you can gain using linear progression, that is simply increasing the weight gradually. Mark Rippetoe has a lot to say about this in several places, but says it clearly in this interview:
http://www.staleytraining.com/media/rippetoe.mp3

There are so many professionally-designed routines available that to me it makes little sense for most people who aren't real experienced to make their own. "Custom workout" sounds great, but "homemade" would probably be a more accurate term.

Look at the stickies in this forum. Look at the information on Starting Strength or some of the "5x5" programs. Or better yet, actually buy a copy of Starting Strength, and follow coach Rip's advice closely. He's the best of the best.

Your routine is really unwieldy and impractical. It'll have you in the gym for hours and hours every week. The volume is very high. You'll be exhausted and burned out in a vew weeks. Few people NEED to lift weights more than 3 times per week, and very few SHOULD do more than 4. You need 2 complete rest days, and some of the other days should be relatively light.

You did include the important compound lifts (bench, press, row, squat, dead, pullups) and that's great. You'll see that most of the basic routines rely entirely on those. Most of the other stuff is redundant and unnecessary for most of us. For instance, day 5 had you doing between 48 and 60 squats, which is a lot (if I were on my routine, I'd be doing 25, but then, I'm old). So why, after doing 60 squats would you want to do leg press, leg extensions and leg curls?

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Re: You need focus...

Post by pdellorto » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:01 pm

WSUdj_ExMet wrote:What are your goals specifically?
-Improve MT fighting?
In my experience that alone isn't a very good goal. It merely pushes you to the next question - what do you expect to improve in the weight room that will improve your Muay Thai fighting? HOW are you going to improve it, and what's the measure of that improvement?

If you leave it as "fight better" you end up without a clear idea of what you need to do, as "fight better" is too vague of a goal. Otherwise, the real answer is "train MT more" because your skill improve in the ring, not in the weight room.

You need to refine it - I need to improve my knockout power. I need to improve my late-round stamina. I need to improve my speed.

Then, use that to determine which of these to focus on, in what order:

-Increase muscular endurance?
-Increase strength/power?
-Increase speed?


A goal is critical, but it's generally better to have a specific criteria to judge it when it comes to fighting.

For example, a year ago I changed my routine, and set a few goals like:
- strengthen my back to avoid being bent backwards over the ropes.
- strengthen my posterior chain and grip strength so I could stand up with folks heavier than me for a potential "buster" - a slam to break a triangle.
- improve my sparring endurance.

I built a routine to let me do just that, and I was able to know I succeeded when I was able to pick up anyone foolish enough to try and spider-guard me, and I was able to keep sparring until the coach said to go home, and I was able to keep the big judoka in the gym from folding me over the ropes when we sparred. All of this came out to "fight better" but without specific goals, how would I know if I'm really getting better?

I don't mean to knock WSUdj_ExMet's advice here, just to point out that "Improve MT fighting" really just starts to define your goal. Specific problems are easier to solve than vague ones!

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:17 pm

lightningsix wrote:I would like to do:
Mon - Upper
Tue - Lower
Wed - Muay Thai
Thur - Upper
Fri - Lower
Sat - Muay Thai
Sun - rest.
I wonder if doing heavy leg weight workouts the days before your kickboxing classes will have a negative effect on your kicking. Maybe pdellorto could comment on this.

Quite frankly, I would go full body on weight training days and then either take a day off before doing Muay Thai. or work on my kickboxing technique independently during a light workout. Doing classes after two days and then five days of solid activity might take something out of you.

As for the best exercises, it's no mystery: squat veriations and deadlift variations for the lower body, and bench presses, dips, military presses, pull ups and rows for the upper body.

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Post by pdellorto » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:40 pm

Stephen Johnson wrote:I wonder if doing heavy leg weight workouts the days before your kickboxing classes will have a negative effect on your kicking. Maybe pdellorto could comment on this.
In my experience, either you need to do heavy leg days far removed from any kickboxing (at least 48 hours before class) to recover, or just do the leg work just before class and suck it up.

The first ensures recovery, the second means you're good and warmed up for class, and if you fight you'll have to fight tired anyway. It's doing legs on, say, Tuesday, and then doing MT Wednesday that 'll kill you. You'll be tired, sore, and shakey, and you'll interrupt your leg recover by asking them to be explosive the day after you asked them to lift heavy. At least on the same day, you'll give yourself the most recovery time before the next legs-and-MT day.

That's assuming you keep an upper/lower split and train with maximal efforts or do lots of reps for stamina.

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Re: You need focus...

Post by WSUdj_ExMet » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:36 am

pdellorto wrote:
WSUdj_ExMet wrote:What are your goals specifically?
-Improve MT fighting?
In my experience that alone isn't a very good goal. It merely pushes you to the next question - what do you expect to improve in the weight room that will improve your Muay Thai fighting? HOW are you going to improve it, and what's the measure of that improvement?

I
Well put, pdellorto. I don't know a whole lot of what aspects are important in MT fighting. It helps a lot to know the sport, however this is still assuming his goal is to improve MT fighting. If his goal is simply to just get bulked then we need to refocus some posts.

PS: which by the way until we are waiting for him to respond, I'm curious what factors play in while MT fighting?
Core strength? Speed? Balance? Endurance? Compare it to another sport.. . like boxing or wrestling or something.

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Post by lightningsix » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:44 am

Thank you for the information fellas.
A lot of what everyone said is very true including the no no of working legs Tuesday and going to MT Wednesday.

I train until I drop in MT (muay thai) so it's probably not practical to lift weights 4 days a week. I guess I'm going to have to come up with a 3day split or use Rippetoe's program.

I have one last question before I finally stick with one and quit rethinking my plan, lol.

My Muay Thai classes that I take are available:
mon: 8:30pm-10:30
tue: 8:30pm-10:30
wed: 8:30pm-10:30
thur: not available
fri: not available
sat: 10:30am-12:30pm
sun: not available

Given the schedule of Muay Thai I would like, and need to continue to go at least twice a week. If I make a 3(non consecutive)day lifting routine or follow one... can anyone recommend the days of muay thai I should be attending so I don't blow a gasket?
-Thanks!

Goals:
(1)Getting bigger/stronger (in the gym)
(2)More kicking power (in mt)

(thanks for the spike comment Peter, he rocks :D )
*EDIT*
Think I'm going to try:

Mon: MT
Tue: weight lifting
Wed: MT
Thur: weight lifting
Fri: off
Sat: weight lifting
Sun: off

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You could try...

Post by WSUdj_ExMet » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:22 pm

You could try doing legs on Thur and Sat so that it doesn't interfere with MT. If going for strength/size I would work heavy like from 4-6 reps on your main lifts: bench, squat, rows, dead lifts, etc...

This is what I'm thinking
Mon: MT
Tue: weight lifting (Upper Body)
Wed: MT
Thur: weight lifting (Either upper AND lower or switch from week to week)
Fri: off
Sat: weight lifting (Lower Body)
Sun: off

Your metabolic needs are probably crazy high, so make sure your getting adequate amounts of GOOD food.
Good Luck

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Re: You could try...

Post by lightningsix » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:35 pm

WSUdj_ExMet wrote:You could try doing legs on Thur and Sat so that it doesn't interfere with MT. If going for strength/size I would work heavy like from 4-6 reps on your main lifts: bench, squat, rows, dead lifts, etc...

This is what I'm thinking
Mon: MT
Tue: weight lifting (Upper Body)
Wed: MT
Thur: weight lifting (Either upper AND lower or switch from week to week)
Fri: off
Sat: weight lifting (Lower Body)
Sun: off

Your metabolic needs are probably crazy high, so make sure your getting adequate amounts of GOOD food.
Good Luck
Awesome! Thanks for the info
-Thank everyone who has replied to my crazy posts since I joined the forums lol. I've had a lot of learning to do and I really appreciate that nobody flamed me from frustration haha. Awesome forum and great people. Thanks again! :green:


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