Why do you think it is...

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tyler
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Why do you think it is...

Post by tyler » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:56 pm

That there are so many varied, different opinions out there on our health. You know its funny, throughout my life I've heard so many different things about what is good and what is not. I'm not just talking about exercise, but also with diet. But to start with exercise, some think endurance is good for you, some think strength, some think flexibility, and some think practicality. And with diet, some think high protein, others think low fat, some think no meat or dairy, some think only meat and dairy (well, maybe not exactly, but pretty close). Some think bread is the enemy, others think fried foods are. After researching all sorts of various articles on almost every subject...and including looking up alot of posts on here...I think I've come to a good conclusion. It came to me when I was reading a book about swimming the other day, a couple of weeks after I read about rollerblading, both claiming that they were the best exercise one could engage in. Of course this isn't possible, and I am not disputing those claims...but how about this...why doesn't America just stress moderation with everything? Even with exercise (and especially with diet)?
For instance...a moderate amount of strength, endurance, and practical (sports and manual labor sort of routines-yardwork and whatnot) is better than just being overachieving in one and forsaking the others. And with diet...eating all the food groups, but in moderation, is better than leaving any of them out? Does anyone agree with me, or do you think I am just crazy for suggesting this?


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Post by TimD » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:13 pm

I think you just nailed it, Tyler. Absolutely NOT crazy. I have my preferences in diet, and have seen doing just what you are suggesting works fine, although I've seen diets focusing less on grains work better. As to exercise, you really have to sit down and consider your goals, why you are training, and then figure out a plan on how to get you there. Different jobs require different tools, and the same principle applies to weight training and goals.
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Stephen Johnson
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Re: Why do you think it is...

Post by Stephen Johnson » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:29 pm

tyler wrote:For instance...a moderate amount of strength, endurance, and practical (sports and manual labor sort of routines-yardwork and whatnot) is better than just being overachieving in one and forsaking the others. And with diet...eating all the food groups, but in moderation, is better than leaving any of them out? Does anyone agree with me, or do you think I am just crazy for suggesting this?
It depends on your goals. If you're a bodybuilder or marathon runner, in oder to be good you have to overachieve in certain areas at the expense of others. But the typical trainee is better off having a more rounded training program.

As for diet, some people do well on a low carb diet, while others do well on higher carb*, or on Zone-type diets. You have to find out what diet works best for you via experience, rather than the pronouncements of some guru. Some sort of diary will help you sort out what works for you and waht doesn't.

*ED: changed fat to carb.
Last edited by Stephen Johnson on Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

KPj
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Post by KPj » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:50 am

The thing is - We, as humans, don't actually know everything about our bodies. We're still learning. Not everythings known. Some things are known for sure and some things are still just theories.

On top of that, not everyones the same. So if you get something sussed for one person, it won't neccessarily work on other people.

In terms of diet, I think most of it comes down to carb tolerance, assuming you understand the general logic behind protein, carb and fat ratios, because once you've got that down, then the rest is just trial and error. If you still think fat makes you fat and 'high protein' means 'Atkins Diet' then your best bet is to go and learn as much as you can about the role of all the 'macronutrients'.

But I honestly think understanding carb tolerance can take you quite far i.e. some people look at a loaf of bread and gain weight. Other people eat the whole loaf and don't gain a pound.

I'm one of the people that have a good carb tolerance, but i'm starting to think i'm in the minority. I can eat more bread, pasta, rice etc and won't see many negative effects. I can lose fat just by switching all my carbs to Veg, apart from post work out and morning / breakfast (I've started just eating like this all the time now, though). Other people need to be quite brutal and get no 'heavy' carbs other than post work out at all.

Conversely, people with a good carb tolerance tend to struggle to put on mass. Really, like their intolerable counter parts in a fat loss sense, they need to tweak the carbs to to suite their goals. So if I want to bulk up I need to start eating A LOT of grains. I also need to tweak my ratios slightly, and go more carb heavy over all, which then requires slightly less protein. That's why this game is so interesting :grin:

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:28 am

There is going to be differing opinions with everything no matter where you go. With opinions come a personal bias towards their choice. A swimmer who is the 'fittest' he will ever be in his life will say swimming is the best exercise for getting lean a sprinter will say the same thing about running 100m intervals.


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Post by KPj » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:53 am

Good point. I get that quite a lot - people with a bias towards certain exercise. I like to think i'm pretty open minded, but a lot of the things i disagree with, namely long duration cardio as the primary means for fatloss or 'just getting fit' for the average person, are so common that people react like i've just shot down their religion or something, and then they just take me for a typical meathead (might be something to do with my Testosterone or Alpha Male T-shirt, but i'm not sure :roll: ).

I get it from family, too. "don't you do any cardio?". "yes, I do sprints". And so the debate starts. Cardio to them is running for an hour. Cardio for me is over head walking lunges, or cleans or push presses. Or a set that lasts over 5 reps. These things have me breathing out my a$$. But my family think i'm missing an essential part of health / fitness because I never do any long distance running. I can barely run the length of my self, and i'm quite a short guy - 5'7 (5'8 if i've not had a haircut in a while, or I didn't squat the night before :wink: ).

Now, get me someone who wants to get fit for a marathon, or actually genuinely loves long distance cardio, and i'll talk with them enthusiastically about it. There's a guy in my gym who cycles 30 miles THEN runs 10k. The way he describes his long distance stuff is exactly how I feel about lifting. So, i 'get it'. Interestingly, the reason he speaks to me is to get tips on bringing out his abs.... (for people confused by this, read first paragraph, then go to the diet and nutrition section.)


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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:00 am

I get it from family, too. "don't you do any cardio?". "yes, I do sprints". And so the debate starts. Cardio to them is running for an hour. Cardio for me is over head walking lunges, or cleans or push presses.
I might as well be talking to a brick wall when talking to my family about exercise and dieting...

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Post by tyler » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:08 am

Yea...when I wrote this post I was talking about the average person in America, not an athelete. Obviously, people who choose to be a powerlifter or bodybuilder will need to be strong or muscular, people who want to run marathons will need to have a lot of endurance, and serious sportplayers will need to be both plus good at their sport. And with diets...you guys said what I needed to say in my first post...some diets work better for other people than others. While there does seem to be a reason to believe that for instance, grains are not the best to eat, the last time I shedded a few pounds I still ate some in moderation and was fine. My opinion of the food groups is that we all were supposed to eat them...but that grains were good when civilization started because people worked their butt off then and grains are so full of calories and were easy to mass produce. That is the problem with them now...its not their fault our society has become a lot less active (grains I mean). Most people should still just try to reduce the amount of calories they eat, see if that works, then modify what foods they are eating to try and shape up (unless of course...they eat total crap like chips and cupcakes before of course!). And for exercise...A good strength training routine, combined with a moderate (20 mins a day, a couple of times a week) of any cardio exercise, combined with maybe playing some sport...and then try modifying it appropiately. I say this because when I go the gym, I see examples of this guys who is pretty chunky and just uses the ellipitcal machine for like 20 mins. He's been doing this everyday there for like over a year that i've been there, and sad to say, he still looks the same. I'm pretty use he's trying to loose some weight, and he obviously has some will for it, so its unfortunate its not working for him. The same goes for another guy who just hits the weights. Now, there diets might also be interfering, but man, could you do that for like a year with no results?

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Post by brook011 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:55 am

Eating in moderation, anyone should be able to shed a few pounds. If you want elite bodyfat %'s -- below 10% -- you have to take things out. Eventually, your body will hit a point where it acclimates to your diet, and you have to change it, usually by eliminating or lowering carb intake.

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Post by TeeBee » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:16 pm

I'm going to ramble on for a bit here.

The waitress finally brings your hamburger and fries. What's the first thing you reach for?

Probably a french fry.

I think the human race is hardwired to do things ass backwards; or, Why does junk food taste so good?

Because it's junk. But somebody had to invent Doritos; they don't occur naturally!

"Don't you do any cardio?!?"

"My heart goes like crazy for 35 minutes six days a week lifting weights."

"So?"

The hardest thing in the world is looking in the mirror and deciding on an appropriate plan of action. (Fewer calories, more exercise.)

Think of all the diet books they sell each year.

My new thing is, Everyone in the world should lift weights. I remember an article where they had senior citizens curl 1-lb. weights and whatnot and it improved their health, etc.

I think that vanity comes into play with people's choice of exercise (yoga, jogging, cycling, swimming, weights ...). Men want to look big, women want a "smaller butt." This is usually the case. But I don't think that the Treadmill day after day is changing anyone's body for the better, if at all. YOU HAVE TO LIFT WEIGHTS.

"But I don't want to bulk up."

A friend in from Europe couldn't believe the huge portions at the average American restaurant. Not huge for me, because I definitely get my exercise in, but huge for the average couch potato, for sure.

And you don't see too many fat people in Europe, but that might change when more and more McDonald's arrive over there.

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Post by Ironman » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:59 pm

It depends on your knowledge of science and your agenda. Cherry picking, claiming causation with only proof of relation, as well as manipulation and lack of proper control groups are HUGE problems that go overlooked when someone has an agenda.

Companies want to sell you cheap food and bogus health and fitness crap. They lobby the government to get their way. That is the sad truth of things. Greed and rampant junk science is a big problem. It is widely accepted by a mostly uneducated general population.


Moderation sounds nice, but it is VERY vague and general. If you mean, eat the right amount for your goals, then that is a very good idea. However if you mean it's ok to eat a little junk food, that depends on your genetics. If you can get away with it, great. You are lucky, enjoy what you have. Not everyone is that lucky though. Everyone is different.

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Post by brook011 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:03 pm

Whats funny for me is that I've recently upped my carb/calorie intake, and almost feel like I'm getting stronger/more muscular definition. Gained maybe 3.5lbs in two weeks now. I think my most important thing for me, is to ensure that I'm not eating carbs late, and if I eat at say 8 or 9pm, it's usually going to be a chicken/pork/beef cut with veggies, no carbs.

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Post by Ironman » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:12 pm

That's usually how it works, Brook. You are only eating too much and/or too many carbs if you are gaining an excessive amount of fat. Carbs are quick energy. You need them to bulk. They are only a problem when you get too much and have to store them. Or if your hormones levels are off, which greatly increases storage ability.

You have to keep the diet clean, no junk food, and no late night carbs when you can't use their energy.

You just have to experiment to find the right macro ratios for your body.

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:16 pm

TeeBee wrote:My new thing is, Everyone in the world should lift weights.
I think that's true. The trouble is, people don't like dogmatic statements. Think how everyone on this forum would react if we made that sort of statement about religion or politics! One of my closest friends, a medical colleague was just talking the other evening about how much he needs to get in better "shape" especially because of his strong family history of heart disease. When he does come to the exercise room, it's just to pump the stationary bike for a half-hour, and that's pretty inconsistant. I brought up weights, and he reacted exactly the same way that I do when someone tells me that I should pump the stationary bike for a half-hour.

Maybe "everyone needs some form of resistance exercise" would go over better.

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Post by TeeBee » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:02 am

And then there are people who avoid protein, thinking it makes you fat. A lot of skinny women in my office ... or should I say unhealthy? They snack all day, but jeez, look at that guy eating protein, yuck.

Re the gov't: Aspartame is everywhere now. They figured out how to put it into foods by different names. (More on this later.)


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