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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:53 pm
by Jungledoc
In addition to the change in angle and weight distribution, if you use a DB with round plates (as opposed to a hex DB) that can roll around, it adds an element of instability that has to be countered while doing the PU. I think a similar variation is putting one hand on a medicine ball. This can be just one element in dozens of ways to vary the PU. I need to do more.

For a weight belt (I use it for chin-ups, but you could use it for weighted dips or PUs) I use a luggage strap. They're cheap, easy to find (in the luggage section of WalMart or wherever) and very adjustable. You can thread it through the hole of one or more plates, then cinch it up. I put a single weight on my low back, or with two plates, one on each hip. For PUs, if you have a partner, he or she can just set the plate on your upper back.

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:06 pm
by ironmaiden708
In addition to the change in angle and weight distribution, if you use a DB with round plates (as opposed to a hex DB) that can roll around, it adds an element of instability that has to be countered while doing the PU. I think a similar variation is putting one hand on a medicine ball. This can be just one element in dozens of ways to vary the PU. I need to do more.
There have been discussions on here about training on unstable surfaces and basically the conclusion is that it is worthless for healthy individuals.

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:01 pm
by bob
I agree with that assessment.

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:06 pm
by Jungledoc
ironmaiden708 wrote:
In addition to the change in angle and weight distribution, if you use a DB with round plates (as opposed to a hex DB) that can roll around, it adds an element of instability that has to be countered while doing the PU. I think a similar variation is putting one hand on a medicine ball. This can be just one element in dozens of ways to vary the PU. I need to do more.
There have been discussions on here about training on unstable surfaces and basically the conclusion is that it is worthless for healthy individuals.
I don't think this is the same as training on BOSU balls or rocker boards! This just forces one arm to control the tendency so roll away from you while you're doing the PU. The arguments Kenny posits in the post you link don't seem to me to apply to this. Ain't the same thing.

Just like lifting free weights makes you control the movement in more than one plane (as compared to a similar lever exercise), this forces the arm to control movement in an additional plane.

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:21 pm
by ironmaiden708
IMHO it believe it does apply to it. To quote the original source @ the website.
I hear a lot of personal trainers tout that using unstable surfaces is great for "functional training." The phrase functional training has gotten a bit skewed as of late, and I think that people have forgotten what the true definition is in the first place. For me, functional training entails anything that improves a real life quality or function.
Technically doing pushups on two dumbells that can move from underneith you during execution of the exercise would count as an unstable surface.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:29 am
by stuward
It's not that unstable surface training is useless, it's just that if you do it to the exclusion of 2 feet on the floor lifting heavy lifting youyill get weaker. It can be useful for accessory work.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:59 am
by KPj
stuward wrote:It's not that unstable surface training is useless, it's just that if you do it to the exclusion of 2 feet on the floor lifting heavy lifting youyill get weaker. It can be useful for accessory work.
I agree with this. It's also a nice accessory if you deload regularly, and especially if you have previous injuries to keep on top of.

It's breifly mentioned in this article, by Eric Cressey. The original article in the original discussion was by Tony Gentilcore, co founder of 'Cressey Performance'.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/overhead_athlete.htm

Everything depends on something. I agree 100% with the original discussion linked from this article. But it does have it's place. Not a neccessity, but it's useful. From a rehab perspective, it's even more useful, but that's not as relevant to this discussion..

KPj

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:56 am
by lightningsix
I dont even include pushups in a regular lifting day, waste of time if you ask me.

There are plenty of other excercises you can do to work the same muscles. Bench press, pull ups, chin ups, military/shoulder press... etc

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:59 am
by KPj
I do some kind of push up atleast once per week... There's loads of point in me doing them. Benching and shoulder pressing doesn't come close to my reason for doing them. I would go as far as to say they're nothing like them.

Lot's on it here
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... and_shrugs

You would be surprised the amount of people than can barely do 10 strict push ups or the amount of peopple who can't even do one correctly.

KPj

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:10 am
by lightningsix
That's true. I know a lot of people who can bench a good 200lbs but can't complete 10-15 strict form push-ups.

Push ups aren't really a problem for me and I don't usually feel a burn until I get around the 30count so I don't usually do them on lifting days.

We do them on every Muay Thai class though, and I did them all through high school (military school). :D

I suppose I don't have trouble with them because I've done them for years and my body weight isn't much.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:31 pm
by Jungledoc

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:34 pm
by Jungledoc
lightningsix wrote:I dont even include pushups in a regular lifting day, waste of time if you ask me.

There are plenty of other excercises you can do to work the same muscles. Bench press, pull ups, chin ups, military/shoulder press... etc
See this video

Or this article

Not a waste of time!

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:13 pm
by ironmaiden708
Jungledoc wrote:How about these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aee2QcS7Btw
I don't plan to join the mens gymnastics team anytime in the near future.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:24 pm
by Jungledoc
Haha! Better you than me!

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:58 am
by pdellorto
Ring pushups are to regular pushups what DB bench presses are to bench presses. You can't do the same weight because you've got to stabilize the weight more, but on the other hand you get the benefits of engaging those stabilizers and not being restricted in your hand position during the exercise.

If you really hate rings - and pushing off the round handle is sometimes a big pain - you can always get some blast straps. I know they have them at my training facility somewhere . . . but unlike rings I haven't gotten to try them yet.
http://flexcart.com/members/elitefts/de ... PD&pid=916