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"scoop" when performing the snatch

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:06 am
by robertscott
tried the snatch for the first time yesterday, I love it! I must have done like 50 reps. I did it from the hang positon as I'm not flexible enough to pull it (or anything else ie deadlifts) from the floor yet.

I love it! The snatch is awesome and nothing like as complicated as I thought it was going to be, i highly recommend everyone gives it a try.

I do have one issue though, i wasn't getting a "scoop". The way I've heard the scoop described (by Charles Staley in a T-nation article called "Snatch Part Deux") is that it is like when you hold a ball in the crook of your elbow then flip it up by extending your arm. The scoop is the same principle only instead of your arm it's your legs straightening to help propel the bar upwards.

Other than that I think my technique was ok, i definitely wasn't pressing the bar up, although admittedly i was too scared to try it with any weight on the bar.

My question is: is my lack of scoop a big deal? Will it mean i am unable to snatch heavier weights than would be possible if i had the scoop mastered? Or am I doing my usual routine of over-analysis and worrying about nothing?

As always any help is much appreciated.
Cheers.
Bob.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:54 am
by TimD
RS, my guess is that you are doing some form of scoop, it;s just a natural occurence. You come up off the floor, or whatever, in the classic RDL form (butt back, shinss vertical) until the bar just comes over the knee caps, at which point, youraise the back, it's still flat but becomes more upright, and in doing so you will notice the knees rebending a bit and the buttgoing down and in a bit. This is the scoop, or transition to the [ower position. This leads into the "explosion" where you literally jump/shrug the bar to get upward momentum on it. Go to Crossfit.com into the exercise and video demo section, look under the O lifting videos, and look for "Scoop Training" by Coach B. His daughter is demoing, and it clearly show the scoop/transition. These days, due to age/arthritus, and other factors, I do most of my snatches, power or full, from the low hang; i.e just below the knees. I find that from the low hang, I get most of the benefits of the lift, and you know something, Bob Hoffman of the old York Barbell club took a survey of his lifters and athletes, and came up with that if there were only two lifts you could do to become strong, fit,and built, they would pick the snatch and the bent pres. The bent press is a whole other topic though, and not done very much anymore, but was a favorite of the old time strongmen.
Tim
Tim

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:09 am
by lightningsix
Wish I had a free weight barbel so I could do some clean+jerks.
I've never done them before

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:16 am
by TimD
Clean and jerks lend them selvex nicely, either on or two handed to DB's. Also, Barrels and sandbags work well too. Equipment shouldn't be a limitation.
Tim

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:19 am
by lightningsix
Hrm... never thought of sandbags, I feel so foolish haha.

My mother lives in the country and at times I help her carry some heavy ass bags of feed around.
I should try on those.

Gonna have to study the form for a while though since it's my first time and I try and over-do-it a lot and end up injuring myself like a tard.

-Thanks!

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:11 pm
by TimD
Yeah, bags of feed work nicely. Just be careful though, I duck taped two of my 45 lb bags of dog food together a while back and was "playing" around with shouldering it and heaving it up, and one of the bags broke and I had dog food all over the k-word fllor. Dog's thought it was great though.
Tim

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:40 pm
by lightningsix
TimD wrote:Yeah, bags of feed work nicely. Just be careful though, I duck taped two of my 45 lb bags of dog food together a while back and was "playing" around with shouldering it and heaving it up, and one of the bags broke and I had dog food all over the k-word fllor. Dog's thought it was great though.
Tim
Haha! Awesome

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:41 pm
by Jungledoc
TimD wrote:...bent pres. The bent press is a whole other topic though, and not done very much anymore, but was a favorite of the old time strongmen.
Tim
Tim
Tim, do you do bent press? Someone ought to start a thread on bent press. It looks way too awesome for a nurd like me to ever do! :lol:

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:13 am
by robertscott
Thanks for the advice Tim, I'll check out that crossfit scoop training. I still manage to get the bar up there so I must be doing something right, I'm just wanting to make sure my technique's perfect before I start training it heavy.

And Doc you are right the bent press looks amazing I tried to teach myself to do it with dumbells but couldn't get the hang of it at all.

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:23 am
by lightningsix
robertscott wrote:Thanks for the advice Tim, I'll check out that crossfit scoop training. I still manage to get the bar up there so I must be doing something right, I'm just wanting to make sure my technique's perfect before I start training it heavy.

And Doc you are right the bent press looks amazing I tried to teach myself to do it with dumbells but couldn't get the hang of it at all.

Eugene Sandow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Sandow

http://books.google.com/books?id=B6SUQ2 ... ntcover&dq