Any problems with this routine?

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Post by Ironman » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:55 am

The 3 day thing is ok. The confusion I think is that we didn't tell you why we are saying 2 full body workouts. It is because you are just trying to stay healthy. So we are giving you something that will improve your body composition a little until you get used to it, and then allow you to maintain your health and mobility through old age.

The exercises are geared towards that as well. In fact you could drop all the isolation. You don't have to spend a lot of time working out just stay fit.

Now if you WANT to do some bodybuilding, strength training or get into power lifting, you can do that. You are not too old at all to take up something like that. Then you might start with 2 or 3 full body workouts and add to them later.

So I would say try out the 2 a week thing. Then if you want to get into some kind of lifting activity, you can change things around.


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Post by sks24 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:13 am

Thanks JungleDoc/Ironman

I looked at all the beginner links in the sticky. I think I get the general idea.

So, in sequence,

Squats
Deadlifts
Bent-Over rows
Bench Press
Lat Pull-downs
Behind the neck press
Weighted Incline Sit-ups.

All three sets except abs. And maybe two sets, or even one, on heavy days?

The hyperextension chair had a dramatic impact on my back, and I would like to work it in, maybe every other lift.

I have tennis elbow, which prevents me from lifting heavy weights. It's a tendon injury I got about six months ago, and it's healing very slowly. In the absence of significant weight on the bar for deadlifts and bent rows, I feel like I'll have to do some isolation work on my arms, and maybe shoulders.

I have to work around this injury: I use a mixed grip on bent rows, which I have been doing for about three months. I've found that anything over 100 lbs on bent rows re-injures the tendon a little bit. I can do 15-20 reps with good form at that weight. But that doesn't really hit the muscles in my shoulders and arms.

Anything over a 30 lb DB in my right hand during seated shrugs does the same.

I can't do upright rows at all. That's why you saw the lateral raises in the routine. I wear a wrist brace, and I lock the dumbell down on the metal plate that runs along the inside of my forearm and just over my wrist. So there's no wrist extension, which is what re-injures the tendon where it attaches at the elbow.

So maybe on my one set heavy day for the seven exercises I listed above I could add a set or two, 12-20 reps to failure, of: deltoids, biceps, triceps, and wrist curls.

And is there any reason I couldn't do weighted incline sit-ups on a non-lift day? I only do one set, so it's not like a workout.

I have a feeling that I might want to do two and three day splits and some bodybuilding in the future. But I think I need to get around my tennis elbow and strengthen my mid-back some more before I get into low-volume/high weight stuff.

Thanks again for all your advice. I appreciate it very much.
SKS

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:44 am

Looks better. You might divide that list into two groups and alternate them. Sure, I think it would be OK to do the situps on a different day.

The tennis elbow does complicate things. Are you doing anything for it? Stretching? Meds? Straps? (I mean the straps that go around the upper part of the forearm.) How is it working?

The best things for it are stretching and strengthening. For your lifting, keep the wrist in strictly neutral position. You might even consider lifting straps for deadlifts until the elbow calms down, maybe the pull-downs as well.

I'd stretch the forearm extensors at a separate time from lifting. I haven't been able to find much information on this that is relevant to weight lifting, or to those whose forearms are already fairly strong. There is some information here http://www.smasa.asn.au/resources/elbow_pain.htm, that you could probably adapt. Add forearm work as assistance at the end of your workouts, as long as you are not making the pain worse either by the main exercises or by the forearm work.

The good news is that tennis elbow goes away, often as mysteriously as it comes. Usually about a year.

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Post by sks24 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:01 am


You might divide that list into two groups and alternate them.


Love the division idea. Are we talking two-day split here? Maybe a push/pull split? (http://exrx.net/Workouts/Workout2PP.html)

ABXABXX? If so, the two groups:

Workout A: Push

Bench Press
Full Squat
Behind the neck press
And then, every second or third lift, Triceps Extensions, and maybe Incline Bench.

Workout B: Pull

Deadlift
Bent Row
Lat Pull-Downs
Every second or third lift, Biceps and Lateral Raises.

And then, on a non-lift day, weighted incline bench situps, one set to failure.

I think a 2x/week, full-body regime would take up less total time per week, and I like that.

If it would work, I like the idea of light to medium weight/high rep isolation work on my arms, shoulders, and forearms (curls only) every third lift in the context of a full-body, WXXWXXX routine.

Elbow: Naproxen Sodium, as much as 440mg every 12 hours, usually @ 8am and 8pm. Stretching and then ice after exercise. I purchased a "Bio-Brace" back in August. (http://www.biobrace.com/Pages/forearmed.html) It's still on backorder. I suppose I should get some lifting straps.

SMASA: great site. It's bookmarked

I'm too lazy to put on a forearm wrap. But, when I do, it seems to help. Especially with things like typing. I'll be sure to keep on on whenever I'm doing anything with that arm from now on.

I'd stretch the forearm extensors at a separate time from lifting.

I thought it was best to do any stretching after exercise, while the fibers were still warm. Anyway, that's what I do. I also do this one stretch every few hours throughout the day. It's basically: pull the wrist down so that my palm is trying to touch my forearm. It seems to help. What's the rational for your suggestion?

Today is a lift day, and I'm going to do a full-body lift.

Thank you all so very much for all your consideration of my situation and your advice.

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Post by pdellorto » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:19 am

You can also do it push/pull/legs, like this:


A
Deadlift
Bench Press
Rows
Abs workout
Whatever else you feel you need (if you want to toss in some curls do it here).

B
Squat
Press
Lat Pulldowns
Abs workout
Whatever (as A)


So that's legs/horizontal push/horizontal pull/abs, legs/vertical push/vertical pull/abs.

The "whatever you want" stuff at the end is just that - if you've got time and the energy, do some biceps or triceps execises, get in some single-leg exercises, use that gripper you got at a garage sale, play with the medicine ball - whatever. You put it last because it's not the most valuable exercises you'll do all day, and so you can drop them if you can't find the time or energy. But you can still get it in on those days you finish your lifts and say, hell yeah, I can keep going.

If you can press behind the neck, go for it. It's hard on many people's shoulders, so mostly people learn to press from in from, and just duck the head back while the bar comes up to overhead. I personally can press behind the neck with no problems, but enough people suffer from it (and don't realize it at first...) to make me hesitant to recommend it. Especially because you're older, so you'll probably find out it's a problem only after you hurt yourself. Pressing in front, though, just takes some practice.


Now the next headache - how many sets and reps? Heh. These might be useful links to look at:

http://www.freedomfly.net/Articles/Trai ... ning29.htm
http://aasgaardco.com/files/preview/ss/sample200.pdf

Hope that helps.


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Post by sks24 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:36 am

pdellorto:

This guy ended any and all shoulder problems I was having:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWxcl9SMH4c

Thanks for the routine. This full body is kicking my butt . . . 'bout fainted twice, and I don't remember doing that for years. So I may have to split this up.

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Post by sks24 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:20 pm

Man!

This squat/deadlift combination, three sets each, packs one heck of a wallop! I literally staggered back to my laptop stand in a dreamy kind of haze with the rep counts. Then I would plop down and breathe real hard like I had just climbed Everest or something. W/o O2.

The whole body lift, then, constitutes an HIIT session.

It took me two hours to do three sets each of these six exercises:
Squats
Deadlifts
Bent-Over rows
Bench Press
Lat Pull-downs
Hyperextension chair (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Ere ... nsion.html)

Were I to split as pdellorto suggests, the HIIT would be over four days a week, and so I would only have to do cardio on the other three. (Squats and deadlifts each constitute, for me, a seperate HIIT session.) That would also probably get the lifts down to well under an hour.

What I'm thinking, then, is that a two-day split could meet my fitness and strength goals in the least amount of time per week.

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Post by pdellorto » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:21 pm

Well, I was suggesting split it and do it either twice a week, or 3 times a week like so: ABA, BAB. With at least a day between each session for rest.

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Post by sks24 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:04 am

JungleDoc:

You don't really want to workout for more than an hour. For me, doing 5x5 on most of my lifts, that limits me to 4 exercises on a practical basis.

So that's five sets, five reps, right? Just curious.

pdellorto: I read your links, and it's clear that I need to lower my rep counts a bit across my light, medium, and heavy days.

How's this for a two-day split? 3 lifts a week (from the template):

XAXBXAX,XBXAXBX


A: (Push)
Full Squat
Bench Press
Military Press
Abs
Triceps

B: (Pull)
Deadlift
Rows
Lat Pull-Downs
Hyperextension Chair
Lateral Raises
Biceps


Or maybe the abs on a non-lift day. Not a big workout, just one set of incline sit-ups or crunches, both weighted.

I'm pretty sure that I can do those lifts in under an hour. The main thing is that I feel I need to get the squats and deadlifts on different days.

The light, medium, and heavy days might look something like this:

XHAXHBXLAX,XLBXMAXMBX

Heavy days: 5-8 reps

Medium days: 9-13

Light: 13-18

Thanks for all your help.

SKS

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Post by Jungledoc » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:30 pm

That looks pretty good! Good luck with it.

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Full Body

Post by sks24 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:25 pm

Thank you all so very much for all your excellent advice.

I went ahead and did a full body again today, and did it in an hour and ten minutes. I must have been tired or low on carbs or something the last time I did it - which was my first time - because this time around I just rocked. I think, for a variety of reasons, I'll stay with the full-body/twice a week routine.

So, in sequence, I did:

1. Squats
2. Deadlifts
3. Bent Row
4. Bench Press
5. Lat Pull-Down
6. Military Press
7. Lateral Raises

As I get in better cardiovascular shape, I'll be able to add some isolation exercises at the end of the routine. Probably just Tri- and Biceps. And I think I'll do Abs the day after my lifts.

Again, thanks.
Scott

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HLM / ten day cycle

Post by sks24 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:04 pm

I've been doing fine with the whole body lifts twice a week. And I have light, medium and heavy days in terms of %1RM. But I'm thinking the lifts should go like this: HXXLXXXMXX. Or maybe this: HXXXLXXMXX

First of all, that's not too much lifting, is it? And secondly, which of the three lifts should get the three days off afterwards? I like having a light lift two days after my heavy lift. It's like a recovery lift.

Anyway, with this ten-day cycle, I can regularize the number of off days relative to each of the three different lifts. I'm just not sure what's the best way to regularize it.

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Post by Skull_Crusher » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:37 pm

I'd put the 3 days off after the heavy day myself. Last thing i want to do after a heavy deadlift session is get back at it two or three days later.....even if its light.


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