Neanderthal no more question

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

User avatar
Rik-Blades
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire U.K.

Post by Rik-Blades » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:58 pm

KPj wrote:Beginner wrote:
What is a heart shaped grip?


Um... i'm not sure - where did you read that? The only thing I can think is doing close grip push up - bring your index fingers together and both hands sort of make a heart. But i'm clutching it straws here...

KPj
Thats what I understand to be a heart shaped grip. It's the same grip I use when doing these:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Tri ... riExt.html

I am also confused!? Where did you find the reference for this grip in NNM?

Beginner
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:40 pm
Contact:

Post by Beginner » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:45 am

Rik-Blades wrote:http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Tri ... riExt.html
I am also confused!? Where did you find the reference for this grip in NNM?
I'm doing this exercise instead of decline barbell extensions, because I don't have access to decline bench. Is it ok?

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Post by Ironman » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:44 pm

It's a good triceps exercise.

User avatar
Rik-Blades
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire U.K.

Post by Rik-Blades » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:35 pm

Beginner wrote:Rik-Blades wrote:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Tri ... riExt.html
I am also confused!? Where did you find the reference for this grip in NNM?


I'm doing this exercise instead of decline barbell extensions, because I don't have access to decline bench. Is it ok?
Its fine like Ironman said, but you can do the Barbell Extensions on a flat bench too.

pieboy100
n00b
n00b
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:50 am

Post by pieboy100 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:58 am

Hey guys

Does anyone have any idea or suggestions for what weight ratios should be used on the NNM program?

Stuart

User avatar
Rik-Blades
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire U.K.

Post by Rik-Blades » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:30 am

pieboy100 wrote:Does anyone have any idea or suggestions for what weight ratios should be used on the NNM program?
Good question.

IMHO, it depends on a couple of factors, what level/experience of training you already have and how strong you think you are.

For example, the full front squats are low rep, so the weight needs to be quite high. But if you have never squatted before, then you need to start light. Personally, I used a weight that is around 80% of my 1 rep max when I started.

The main point of the program, however, is to introduce you to muscles you generally dont train. Once you have followed the program, you will (or should be) adapting your workouts to include these exercises in your routines. It's not ment to be a routine you follow forever (as nothing will work forever anyway!) but more of a learning/correction program.

If you think you can handle more weight, then add weight. You will need to anyway as these muscles get stronger and come more into line with the other 'mirror' muscles you have already made stronger and caused your bad posture in the first place.

Follow the program, add weight when you can, marvel at the doms in your back and be amazed as you look sideways in the mirror and see how you straighten up over the weeks. Trust me when I say your workouts will never be the same again.

pieboy100
n00b
n00b
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:50 am

Post by pieboy100 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:55 am

Thats good advice... the reason I ask though is because some of the exercises I do easier with more weight than others... for example, I can row with 60%/70% my own bodyweight, but the reverse flies, I struggle with 10% of my body weight. External shoulder rotations I can only manage 5kg!

Should I keep it light until my weakest areas catch up or is this irrelevant?

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:46 am

Don't get hung up on ratios. We're all different. Just work out your training weights for each lift you do, and don't worry if you tend to be stronger on certain lifts and weaker on others. Just train it all. If you feel you have a big weakness, you can do a little extra for that.

User avatar
Rik-Blades
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire U.K.

Post by Rik-Blades » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:50 pm

pieboy100 wrote:Thats good advice... the reason I ask though is because some of the exercises I do easier with more weight than others... for example, I can row with 60%/70% my own bodyweight, but the reverse flies, I struggle with 10% of my body weight. External shoulder rotations I can only manage 5kg!

Should I keep it light until my weakest areas catch up or is this irrelevant?
Speaking purely from my own experience, I did back off a little in my usual big presses (bench, overhead) whilst I got with the program. Not that I avoided doing them altogether, just didn't go hell for leather like I normally do and make them stronger. I cant say I had much time to do any 'Extra' anyway, as there's quite a bit to get your head around anyway and can be quite time consuming as you develop your form and find the right weights to use etc.

Dont be worried about the weights being small to begin with. External shoulder rotations are hard and use very small weak muscles anyway, so dont expect to be breaking world records on these. Going too heavy before you're ready will only lead to injury and set you back weeks, if not longer.

Once you have completed the program, which only takes 8 weeks, you can re-design your workouts to include these types of movements and get back to some serious pressing etc. I found that my bench went up by 10 kg (22lbs) without really benching during the 8 weeks!

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:28 pm

I am finally going to start the "Neanderthal No More" program on t-nation cause I am sick of my upper trapz/levator scapulae being tight and one oblique stronger than the other and one hip stronger than the other (right glute is stronger than left glute and when I walk, I always got to make sure I keep the left hip down when walking and not go up or I will feel uneven). today I did the monday workout and the snatch deadlifts is 6 sets, way too many. took me almost a half an hour to complete all 6 sets. Also during the last set, I could only do like 2 reps before my grip gave out on me. before my workout today, I did a hip mobility warm up and glute activation exercises and also to try and wake up the left glute. getting the left glute to activate well is hard. I still feel like after all the activation, my right glute wants to take up most of the work and when I squat, my butt wants to go toward the right side and I fight it off and try not to let it do it.

and I know I have had worries about muscle imbalances and stuff...so I decided to actually give this program a try and see if it will help me like it helped others.

one question I do have though..what does this mean when cressey says 3,2,1,3,2,1? He has it on the Heels Elevated, Rock Bottom Front Squats and the chest supported t-bar rows. I am not worried about the chest supported t-bar rows, but is this like a 1 RM for these 2 exercises? I can't even do a front squat correctly because my wrists are not flexible enough yet or strong enough to hold a 45lb bar yet, and I dont like the cross grip.

but yeah...why 6 sets for the main lifts? that is too many. my snatch deadlift today took almost a half an hour!

User avatar
Rik-Blades
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire U.K.

Post by Rik-Blades » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:14 am

caangelxox wrote:today I did the monday workout and the snatch deadlifts is 6 sets, way too many. took me almost a half an hour to complete all 6 sets. Also during the last set, I could only do like 2 reps before my grip gave out on me. before my workout today
Question for you: Why do you think it took half an hour to complete this?

I'm going to guess that you went way too heavy.

Remember that this is about training muscles that you don't normally train (for most people anyway) and NOT a means to break PR's on lifts that you may already do. Personally, I beleive it's Cressey's intention to 'make you aware' of these muscles and how they work and effect your posture, more than just give you a program that you blindly follow and magically 'fixes' your problems. Of course, for most people they will see a dramatic improvement in their posture, it's then up to you do take from this program what you need and carry on the good work.

Lower the weight to something you can cope with easily and gradually add weight as the weeks follow. If you need help with the grip, simply use straps.
caangelxox wrote:one question I do have though..what does this mean when cressey says 3,2,1,3,2,1? He has it on the Heels Elevated, Rock Bottom Front Squats and the chest supported t-bar rows. I am not worried about the chest supported t-bar rows, but is this like a 1 RM for these 2 exercises? I can't even do a front squat correctly because my wrists are not flexible enough yet or strong enough to hold a 45lb bar yet, and I dont like the cross grip.
He means do 3 reps on the squat (then do the warrior stretch) then do 2 reps on the squat (then do the warrior stretch) and then do 1 rep on the squat.

Most people dont like front squats, but you can improvise a little. Personally I did use heels elevated back squat or even use dumbells if needed.

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:51 pm

thanks. I will probably do a dumbbell front squat instead of barbell front squat because of my wrist flexibility and strength or I can go light on a barbell front squat with a lighter bar (like the 25lb ones I can easily get up without it having to go onto a rack). I need a weight that my wrists can handle. I think thats how beginning front squat people do it where they go light to work on the strength and flexibility of the wrists, and then slowly increase the weight.

and on the snatch deadlifts, your right..I need to go lighter even if I know I can do more reps. I was doing it at 115 pounds my 6 rep maximum. If I want to improve my posture muscles and everything, I should go lighter in this 4 week program to make sure all the muscles and stabilizers are working, then slowly increase like you said. and also if I do it this way, my grip strength will increase too and everything will be on the same page instead of 1 muscle giving out before the other 1 does

User avatar
pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:21 pm

Do this:
caangelxox wrote:I can go light on a barbell front squat with a lighter bar (like the 25lb ones I can easily get up without it having to go onto a rack). I need a weight that my wrists can handle.
And this:
caangelxox wrote:and on the snatch deadlifts, your right..I need to go lighter even if I know I can do more reps.
That's the best way to approach any program - go light enough that you can get the reps you need to get, with proper technique. You can always increase the weight later, but you can't get back a workout you blew by choosing too much weight and missing reps.

User avatar
ApolytonGP
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1122
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:44 am

Post by ApolytonGP » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:32 pm

pdellorto wrote:
Beginner wrote:And, are there any DB/BB alternatives for:
High-to-Low Cable Woodchops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ued_f_Fs2wI
You can do low-to-high with a med ball or a plate. You can do high-to-low with a med ball or plate, too, but it's not the same...you're better off attaching a band overhead or to a tall post and then doing band woodchops.

It's hard to get resistance to the downward pull with a weight in your hands.
Back from the 80s, gravity boots

caangelxox
Member
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post by caangelxox » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:38 am

pdellorto wrote:Do this:
caangelxox wrote:I can go light on a barbell front squat with a lighter bar (like the 25lb ones I can easily get up without it having to go onto a rack). I need a weight that my wrists can handle.
And this:
caangelxox wrote:and on the snatch deadlifts, your right..I need to go lighter even if I know I can do more reps.
That's the best way to approach any program - go light enough that you can get the reps you need to get, with proper technique. You can always increase the weight later, but you can't get back a workout you blew by choosing too much weight and missing reps.
my legs and back can take the weight fine, its the grip mostly. and maybe I am lifting the weight too slow when deadlifting and maybe have to do it a little faster like I can on lighter weight.

Post Reply