ab work

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:23 pm

So I stumbled on this while looking for something else and gave it a try:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... abs_really

I was able to do level 3 fairly easily but couldn't do level 4 without at least one heel leaving the floor. I was surprised to find that after just a few reps (maybe 5) of level 3 though I felt like I'd done a good 30 crunches. What gives - I'd always read that crunches were supposed to be preferred for various biomechnical reasons, but those straight leg things felt much more intense and targeted.

Oniw17 · Post by **Oniw17** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:35 am

Good looking man, I'll definitely be doing more of these is the future. It took me 6 tries to get the first level 4 without my heels involuntarily jumping up between steps 2 & 3, and then I could only get 3 reps in a rowbefore my right heel jumped up on the forth. I thought I was having issues with the second level 1 until I noticed that they did that one backwards. I can only do level 3 of the reverse crunch test, which kind of made me angry because I did little more than core exercises over the winter. I didn't notice any names for these exercises, does anyone know
of their names?

The pauses in between the movements make them a lot harder than they would normally be, especially the last step.

Post by **Ironman** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:48 am

Well, I'm a stud apparently. The level 4 ones are actually kind of hard. Harder than I though a body weight ab exercise could be. How about level 5, a set of situps on a decline bench at maximum decline, holding a bar with about 55% of your bodyweight. I could usually get 6 or 7 when I last did them.

Onlyethic · Post by **Onlyethic** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 am

i tried this out a few weeks ago. found 1 - 3 to be very easy. my form was strict. 4 was more of a challenge, but certainly doable. not sure how accurate this is as a level indicator.

then again, most of my ab work is weighted, and has been for a long time. hanging leg raise with 35lb dumbbell, sets of 6 or 7, is better use of time, i feel. same with ironman's decline weighted situp.

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:20 pm

Maximum decline, Ironman? My bench's maximum decline is 90 degrees straight up, but there's not much to hold on to.

Onlyethic, now handing leg raise, to me, doesn't seem like ab work. That hits my hip flexors more. Unless your talking about the one where you keep your knees bent the whole time and raise your butt...

I think I'll keep at it until I can do their level 4... seems interesting.

pdellorto · Post by **pdellorto** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:39 pm

I got both tests at level 4 first time I tried. I tried them again just now, a couple hours after a workout involving weighted situps and rotational med ball slams.

Again, I got level 4 on both the bottom-up and top-down ones.

I don't think the tests are really that hard...unless maybe the judging is more strict in person than I can do on my own?

Post by **Ironman** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:49 am

Most benches aren't much steeper than 45 degrees. But when you lower it all the way down it's almost flat. So I should say with a typical decline bench raised all the way up.

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:09 pm

If I can do "level 3" then it can't be that difficult. I still have no abs, just flabs. :) I'll be doing more attempts today though.

Anyone see a downside to those vs crunches?

bob · Post by **bob** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:16 pm

If you really want to develop a good core, the best way in my opinion is to do exercises such as squats, especially the front squat, and deadlifts. With good form of course. You can always do isolation ab work to define the abs, such as planks or stability ball oblique crunches to name a couple.

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:40 pm

I've heard that before, but I don't get how that could be the case. I don't feel any abdominal work during deadlifts. I haven't done shoulder weighted squats but don't see how that could be any different.

I definitely felt the t-nation L3s though... in fact two days later I still do.

Post by **Ironman** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:22 pm

There was actually a paper released on it, which is much more reliable than how it feels to 1 person.

bob · Post by **bob** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:52 pm

As Ironman said, don't take one person's opinion. Do some research. Lot's of good info available (unfortunately some bad too) To me, this site is one of the best sources, But that's all it is, is an opinion. By the way, the rectus abdominus is a stabilizer during the deadlift. Good luck.

frogbyte · Post by **frogbyte** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:03 pm

Yea well like I said I've heard that. Googling "squat abdominals" and such gives tons of pages of people raving about it. I just don't get it mechanically though. The only way I can see the abs being involved at all is just from the overall tensing of muscle throughout the body whenever you're exerting yourself. In that vein though, you work your abs in almost every exercise, just maybe a little more in squat because squat already recruits a lot of other muscle.

Post by **Jungledoc** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:21 pm

frogbyte wrote:Yea well like I said I've heard that. Googling "squat abdominals" and such gives tons of pages of people raving about it. I just don't get it mechanically though. The only way I can see the abs being involved at all is just from the overall tensing of muscle throughout the body whenever you're exerting yourself. In that vein though, you work your abs in almost every exercise, just maybe a little more in squat because squat already recruits a lot of other muscle.

On either squats or DLs you need to set your abdominals very tightly in order to protect your spine. If you're doing that well, it's a lot of work for your abs.

We had a big discussion a few weeks ago here about whether the work that the abs get from squats and DLs is enough. Personally, I do some additional ab work, and I believe that that work in turn helps my squats and DLs. I do mostly isometric ab exercises like Pallof press planks, etc.

Peter Rouse · Post by **Peter Rouse** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:27 pm

bob wrote:If you really want to develop a good core, the best way in my opinion is to do exercises such as squats, especially the front squat, and deadlifts. With good form of course. You can always do isolation ab work to define the abs, such as planks or stability ball oblique crunches to name a couple.

EMG studies would disagree