Controversial Exercises?

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ninjackn
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Controversial Exercises?

Post by ninjackn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:28 pm

Asides from Dead Lifts and Squats which we all know are in fact ridiculously effective exercises,

what other exercises have controversy around them?

Upright Rows and Behind the Neck Press are a two that come to mind.


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Stephen Johnson
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Post by Stephen Johnson » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:09 am

@ninjackn:

Given the large number of fitness gurus and workout routines, practically every exercise has its supporters and detractors. The best advice might be not to do any exercise that causes pain. That's assuming, of course, that you're doing the exercise correctly.

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Post by Jungledoc » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:42 am

Machine exercises, including Smith machine.

Rotational back exercises.

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Post by KPj » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:23 am

Hyperextensions

Anything with a rounded (lower) back.

Those 'empty can' lateral raises that people do.

Box Squats (real box squats, not touch and go)

Wide grip pull ups, although controversy with these isn't as well known.

Bench Press (how could you forget this one?)


Personally I feel with some of these, the controversy is warranted, but some others, it's just stupid.

The controversy with most of these exercises is generally down to people doing them that shouldn't be doing them, due to imbalances, genetics, or previous injury history, which generally means that they experience negative effects from them. Other than that, you also have the people who just do them wrong, and therefore, experience negative effects from them.

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Post by KPj » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:25 am

can't believe I forgot...

Traditional Sit ups and crunches. These are controversial now, too.

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p.s I bet if the question was 'what exercises DON'T have controversy surrounding them?', then the thread would be very short!


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Post by hoosegow » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:40 am

Leg lifts.

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Post by robertscott » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:52 am

KPJ what do you mean by "empty can" lateral raises?

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Post by pdellorto » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:01 am

Wrestler's Neck Bridges

Kipping Pullups

Any lift done explosively

Any lift done really slowly

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Post by KPj » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:42 am

robertscott wrote:KPJ what do you mean by "empty can" lateral raises?
You do a normal lateral raise, but you rotate your arms (shoulders) inwards (internally) as you raise - as if you have a watering can in each hand, and your emptying them via a lateral raise. If that makes sense. It was a tweak made to my lateral raise form by a big BB guy not long after I first joined a gym, "twist your arms in, get more of a burn in the delts" or something stupid like that. It could be down to me not being interested in BB type training anymore, but you don't seem to see it as much. I still see it in my gym, though.

It was also once touted as a prehab exercise for the rotator cuff, still is by some severely out of date therapists. The only difference is, you would do the raise with your arms rotated through the whole movement, instead just 'as you were moving'. It was called, simply, 'the empty can'. YOu also raise the arms around 30degress in front (slightly in front), instead of straight out to the side like a traditional lateral raise.

Out of everything I mentioned, the controversy for this is probably most warranted. It's probably not the right place to go into it, but basically, the 'empty can' is used by good therapists as a 'provocative test', meaning, "if the patients RC is screwed, this is bound to let you know, because if anything is going to cause pain, it'll be this".

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Post by ninjackn » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:36 pm

KPj wrote:The controversy with most of these exercises is generally down to people doing them that shouldn't be doing them, due to imbalances, genetics, or previous injury history
I can easily see how imbalances or previous injury could prevent you from doing an exercise and inuring yourself but what about genetics exactly affects proper execution?

The idea of something like "you were born NOT to do squats son..." is rather frightening.

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Post by KPj » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:05 am

ninjackn wrote: I can easily see how imbalances or previous injury could prevent you from doing an exercise and inuring yourself but what about genetics exactly affects proper execution?

The idea of something like "you were born NOT to do squats son..." is rather frightening.
OK, first, I really shouldn't of mentioned genetics. I type too fast. Not because it's not true (it is), but because the majority of people don't have that problem, and also because outside of getting X-Rays, there's no way you can find out for sure. Training with common sense is all you need to do in any case anyway. Injuries of this nature don't come on all of a sudden, the come on gradually, over months or years, so you need to pretty ignorant to a problem in order to let it get out of hand. This applies for postural and technique issues done over a long period of time anywway. So in a practical sense, you don't change anything, just train smart.

What I really meant and the only thing worth talking about is overhead work. When I say 'worth talking about' it's because every other case is so rare that it doesn't warrant a mention.

So, back to OH work and genetics. It's to do with Acromion type. YOu get type I, type II, and type III. If your type I, you can generally break all the 'rules' and get away with it, and therefore, you'll proclaim that all these shoulder freaks (like me) are full of crap. If you're type III, you're going to have a hard time going over head, and you'll think all these guys that say you MUST do a lot of vertical pushing are full of crap.

Specifcally, the acromion type refers to the 'hook' part of your shoulder joint. If you're interested, read my description about the supraspinatus (rotator cuff muscle) here - http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5678 . There's mention of 'space available' in the shoulder joint for a tendon to pass under with minimal contact. Well, type III guys, genetically, have limited space, creating more pressure on the tendon, making it more likely to get sore, or injured - this 'contact' wears through the tendon with repetitive activity, the more contact, the more stress, the sooner you'll become symptomatic.

More info on this at 'shoulder saver #1' in the following article -http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ers_part_i

In an attempt to take back my scare mongering, just train with the asumption that you don't have this problem. If you get shoulder issues, you should exhaust all other methods of shoulder heath (hammering the scapular stablilisers, in short) before you start blaming it on genetics.

In a practical sense, your best ignoring the genetics thing.

KPj

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Post by Rucifer » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:50 pm

What is the controversy with wide grip pullups? I do them all the time...

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Post by hoosegow » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:56 pm

Rucifer wrote:What is the controversy with wide grip pullups? I do them all the time...
They cause impotence.

Sorry mods. I'm in a hotel room bored.

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Post by Jungledoc » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:16 pm

Rucifer wrote:What is the controversy with wide grip pullups? I do them all the time...
Some people think they cause shoulder problems, and they can, or at least worsen existing problems. I can't do them. I mean, I can do them, but I get a catch in one shoulder, and after a few reps it starts to hurt. I'm trying some "rehab" lifting, and will try them again some day.

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Post by Ironman » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:20 pm

hoosegow wrote:
Rucifer wrote:What is the controversy with wide grip pullups? I do them all the time...
They cause impotence.

Sorry mods. I'm in a hotel room bored.
rotflmfao! :lol:

I think cause explosive flatulence too!

The kind that blow the stitches out of your pants and sets off the smoke alarm.

:lol:


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