New Workout routine, looking for opinions

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Pauly420
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New Workout routine, looking for opinions

Post by Pauly420 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:20 pm

After consulting a friend with alot of lifting experience I decided to change up my routine. Looking to see if you guys think i need to tweak anything. Right now im doing an upper/lower/off 2 day split.

He says I need to devote an entire day to back and legs, and work one muscle group every 6 days (for adequate recovery). So Ive composed this 4 day split.

Day 1 - Chest/Bicep
Day 2 - Legs supersetting with some ab work
Day 3 - Shoulders/Triceps
Day 4 - Back supersetting with some ab work
Day 5 - Off

He tells me that doing chest/tri on same day takes away from strength while performing because tris get tired too fast. Also back and biceps shouldnt be combined for the same reason.

Anyone ever tried this routine? I usually run 3/4 mile in 5 min for warmup, get pulse up around 170. Then i superset 3x12 w/ 3x12 about 6 different exercises which takes about 30-45 min.

My goals are to put on lean muscle mass and with my old routine (upper/lower/off) i was losing weight, getting stronger but went from 180 to 171 in a matter of months.

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Post by stuward » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:49 pm

If you were getting stronger, why change? If you were losing weight, you weren't eating enough. Changing your routine won't change that.


Your split is a 5 day rotation instead of 6 as recommended by your friend. 6 days is rather arbitrary anyway. Everyone has different recovery requirements so any number is as good as any other if it's wrong.

http://drsquat.com/content/knowledge-ba ... ning-split

I also think biceps and back go together and triceps and chest go together. To do it any other way never gives your arms time to rest.

I think one of the most useful splits is upper/rest/lower/rest. if you alternate your upper days into vertical and horizontal planes and alternate focus on the lower body to quads and hamstrings, you get the whole body trained and the frequency is very close to what Dr. Squat suggests for a hard gainer in his article.

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Re: New Workout routine, looking for opinions

Post by hari » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:23 pm

this routine isnt good for you,if you wanna put mass and strength insieme!
i think you should do 3days spilt or full body routine.
the logically is too many exercises,4-6days spilt is designed for proffessional bodybuilder and this isnt designed for who want to lean mucle mass and strenght.
And triceps e shouder could go train insieme,back and biceps too!
3days spilt is good for you cuz it is for mass and also STRENGTH

chest/back
legs
Shoulder/triceps/biceps

dont train like a proffessional BB.do simple and effective and hard.

i think you will find a difficulty to understand my english :roll: sorry


[/u]

Pauly420
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Post by Pauly420 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:44 pm

no your english is fine, thanks for the idea but ive always been told arm days are a waste.

Stu you said upper, off, lower, off. I like this idea and it seems like it would be adequate rest. Let me list a typical workout for my upper/lower routine and tell me if u think i need more.

Upper -

Workout Upper A
Incline Dumbell Press 3x12 Chest
Cable row 3x12 Back
Shoulder Shrugs 3x12 Shoulder
Barbell Curls 3x12 Bicep
Skullcrushers 3x12 Chest
Cable pulldowns 3x12 Back

Workout Upper B
Flat Dumbell Bench 3x12 Chest
Barbell Rows 3x12 Back
Rope Pulldowns or close-grip bench 3x12 Triceps
Shoulder Shrugs 3x12 Shoulders
Decline Smith Machine Bench Press 3x12 Chest
Chinups 3xfail Back

Workout Lower (only have 1)

Butt to the floor full squats - 3x10
Smith machine Calf raises - 3x15
Deadlifts (bent leg) - 3x10
Calf reverse lift (not sure of official name its a machine like kicking back) - 3x10
Walking DB Lunges - 8x8x3

I have been pretty much alternating upper body A and B and doing the leg workout every 3 days.

If I were to do the upper, off, lower, off should i add any exercises or any important ones im missing? Thanks!

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Post by TimD » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:08 pm

Your stated old routine w/the supersets, done quick paced is a great way to shed fat (kicks up the metabolism), but isn't a great way to add mass. Too many people get caught up in the "get hyooge and ripped" thing. They are diametrically opposed. If you want more muscle, then follow Stu's comments and eat more. Also, he upper/lower thing you proposed doesn't look too bad, but take two major lifs/day, say a bench and row, and work them heavy for 5-6 reps , then do the others at the higher reps. I think you wil stimulate more muscle gains that way. Slow the pace down, and don't worry about the gain being lean. You'll have plenty of time to shed any if any excess you put on.
Tim

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Re: New Workout routine, looking for opinions

Post by KPj » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:50 am

Pauly420 wrote: He says I need to devote an entire day to back and legs, and work one muscle group every 6 days (for adequate recovery). So Ive composed this 4 day split.
Every 6 days for adequate recovery isn't happening that routine. Your tri's are getting trained in day 1 and 3, Bi's in day 1 and 4

Pauly420 wrote: He tells me that doing chest/tri on same day takes away from strength while performing because tris get tired too fast. Also back and biceps shouldnt be combined for the same reason.
In theory that makes perfect sense. But then you've got Tri's after doing shoulders, so you have the same problem as you would have, in theory, by doing them with chest.

I've never met a Powerlifter or read about any who doesn't train Triceps in with benching. I'm sure there's PL that have, i've just never heard of it, but, powerlifters have arguably the strongest triceps around. Probably because the widely regarded best way to strengthen them is via heavy pressing variations....

I can't add anything to the advice you've been given already. I just wanted to show you that there's holes in the logic of the advice you were given...

KPj

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Post by Halfbreed » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:16 am

I agree with some of the postings, and disagree with some of the postings. It has been my experience that the best way for gaining size, (as I went from 183 to 240 from lifting and no supplements) is to first, eat every two hours, and eat well. Second, focus mainly on the large muscle groups such as legs and back, spend a lot of time hitting them, and hit them hard and heavy. Spend some time balancing out your routine with the smaller muscle groups, but to pack on lots of weight, focus on the large muscle groups, and the others will follow suit if they are worked into the main routine. Take a significant amount of time between your sets, 2-4 minutes, as this will do two things: first, it will allow your muscles time to recover, which will allow you to continue hitting heavy and therefore gain size and strength from folowing the overload principle; second, it will, as TimD said, keep you from burning up too many calories during your lift, as supersetting would.

Also, always lift to failure. Warm up your muscles well, then focus on a powerlifting type routine, in the lower rep ranges, from 6-1. Lots of compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, that kind of thing, and make sure you work in lots of rows, bench, cleans, that kind of thing. The reason that many people say that working out arms is a waste of time is because you get your tris during a lot of your chest/shoulder exercises, and you get your bis during a lot of your back exercises. Core is important, not just to get a six-pack, but because it is fundamental in working everything out, even something like a flat bench, where your core stabalizes you while lifting heavy weights.

Once you pack on enough size, and keep in mind you will be gaining body fat as well, you can then focus on getting the muscle detail and cutting down a bit, if you want to be able to feel good when you take off your shirt at the river or the beach. However, this worked best for me not by hitting a ton of cardio, as I have taken this approach also, but by doing full-body circuits, and including abs every day. Lots of explosive compound workouts. If you need a sample workout, ask, and I will give you a five-day workout that I used. I had good but not great abs in less than a month, and best of all, I retained most of my strength and size, as is hard to do.

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Post by Pauly420 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:42 am

Thanks for the advice guys, basically what im looking for is a new routine for gaining lean muscle mass. Im probably not eating enough to put this mass on right now, I try to eat every 2-3 hours usually a half a chicken or some turkey breast with corn/various vegtable. I also drink the EAS 42g protein shakes post workout and 22g protein muscle milks (about 2-3 per day). I guess it makes sense that the supersetting is for cutting, because the guy who gave the idea to me is my height, 225, and already huge.

Basically I want to know how many exercises per body part per workout (right now ive been doing about 5-6 exercises per workout in about 45 min), rep/set range and some key exercises for each muscle group.
I mean is it true that 10-12 rep range is best for stimulating muscle growth? I've read some articles about 5x5 and 10x10, tried that for a little while with minimal results.

I kind of think im overtraining at the moment, although my body has gotten extremely lean and cut alot of fat (legs are rock solid all around) Im not gaining any weight or jumping up on my lifts anymore (dont think muscle recovery is adequate).

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