wsfsb question.

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xshawnxearthx
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wsfsb question.

Post by xshawnxearthx » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:19 pm

what does "work up to a max set of 5 reps" mean?

also "work up to 3 sets of max reps".

i'm not a skinny guy, and i'm really not sure if i'm a typical hard gainer or not, but the program looks interesting and i'm thinking about giving it a try.

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Re: wsfsb question.

Post by Stephen Johnson » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:29 pm

xshawnxearthx wrote:what does "work up to a max set of 5 reps" mean?
It means to use a weight that is challenging to do for 5 reps in a set. If doing more reps is easy, it's time to up the weight.

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Post by pdellorto » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:35 pm

Pretty much with Stephen said.

You start out with your warmup sets (say, 5 x 45, 5 x 95) and then being to progressively work towards a 5, 3, or 1 rep max. That's your max for the day, not your max all time - some days it'll be a PR, other days it won't quite get there.

You can decide on your goal ahead of time - I used to do that when I did WS4SB on my own in Japan. I'd aim for a new PR or matching a previous PR on my final set.

Or you can do it on the fly, depending on how the lighter weights feel - that's how they do it with me at DeFranco's when I train there. So if I bench for a 1RM and 1 x 165 feels heavy as hell, I might stop there or max at 1 x 175. If it feels light, we keep going. That's how I got my 1 x 185 PR - I just popped up the lighter weights, so we went heavier.

Hope that helps.

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Post by xshawnxearthx » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 pm

but how much weight should you actually start at? say those were your warm ups, what would be the next set?

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Post by stuward » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:39 am

A rule of thumb for 5x5 is to make the first set 50-60% of your final set and go up in even increments, so 10% if you start at 60%, 12.5% if you start at 50%. This is called ramping.

If the program doesn't specifically call for ramping. and merely "work up to a max set of 5 reps", you just need to do enough on the preliminary sets for a warmup. How you do that is up to you.

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Post by stuward » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:48 am

"work up to 3 sets of max reps" is completely different. That's completely open as to how much weight to add and how many reps to do but it's common for body weight exercises. Here I interpret "work up" to mean do 1 set the first time, then if you still have energy left attempt a second. Each workout try to build up your stamina until you can do 3 sets each time.

Note: My comments are my general understanding of the terms and don't relate specifically to wsfsb. Their terminology may mean something completely different.

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Post by KPj » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:17 am

They way I 'work up' - and it's one of my preferred ways to train - is just, um, 'work up to a 3 rep max....'. You really shouldn't over think it. It's like working up to any max....

If you're 3 rep max is 200lbs, you may start with an empty bar to groove the movement, then go to something like 90lbs, then add 20-40lbs each set, just sticking to 3 reps. As you get to a more challenging weight, you'll typically decrease the jumps, maybe down to 5-10lbs. It's very 'feel' dependant. You just keep going until you hit a 3rep max for the day. Then, if I remember correctly, on WSFSB, you knock off 20% from your 3rep max for the day and rep out...

I do this quite a lot. I also make the 'working up' sets as explosive as possible. So you're kind of getting some speed work in there as well, which will fire up your CNS, gearing you up to break PR's. After a while you are generally able to tell whether you'll break any records or not by how fast your working up sets 'feel'...

I actually struggle to come away from this way of training. I really enjoy it, have made most of my progress to date training like this, and have trained similar to this for almost 3 years now.

I'm actually changing to 5-3-1 in a few weeks purely because it's such a big change from what i'm used to...

KPj

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Post by xshawnxearthx » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:21 am

i didn't know this was a 5x5. so basically, after my two warm up sets, when i start at 50-60%, i should figure that i'm supposed to do 5x5 and on the 5th set have that being my heaviest weight? or is it, just start at X amount of weight, go up 20-40lbs each set until i can't do 5 reps anymore?

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Post by pdellorto » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:39 am

The latter.

Look here:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articl ... part3.html

and scroll down to "Notes regarding warm-up sets" - it explains it pretty thoroughly and has a few examples of working up.

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Post by xshawnxearthx » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:47 am

pdellorto wrote:The latter.

Look here:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articl ... part3.html

and scroll down to "Notes regarding warm-up sets" - it explains it pretty thoroughly and has a few examples of working up.
reading that article totally made sense. thanks a lot. hopefully i can put on some muscle with their 3 day split.

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Post by xshawnxearthx » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:50 am

i think once i get back into the swing of doing legs(haven't done legs in a month due to an irritation in my knee) i'm going to add the dynamic lower body day.

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Post by frogbyte » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:42 pm

Since switching to total-rep-count pacing, I've done just 1 warm-up set of 12 reps at 50% (rounded up to the nearest plate/DB)... but I'm pacing 3-5 work sets out. Would DeFranco not approve?

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Post by pdellorto » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:09 pm

Well, if you're getting stronger, who cares?

And I'm sure they'd use anything that got people stronger there.

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Post by xshawnxearthx » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:01 pm

so ok, 2 warm up sets, 5 working sets working up to your 5 rm. what happens if you planned to have your 5th set be your 5rm, and you get there and can do more. do you go up and try for a 3rm?

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Post by Ryan A » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:37 am

I don't think the number of sets is fixed at all.

You should pick a starting weight that is safe given your warm up sets and then make safe increments until you get whatever is your max effort for the day.

For the 3 sets of max reps, I would say just pick a weight and do as many reps as possible and then do another set with the same weight. Generally the reps would be less on the 2nd and 3rd sets but I dont think that really matters.

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