Tennis Elbow - Epilateral Condylitis

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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Thu May 13, 2010 2:42 am

KPj wrote:I agree with what's been said about the Chiro in question and the advice being given (just lift some heavy things!) but, what you're doing here is tarring all chiro's with the same brush.

As I understand it, there's 2 main types of chiros. Traditional and Non-traditional. There's some other term to describe them but I can't remember what that is. As you can imagine, traditional Chiro's are the one's who believe that things pop out of place and they can pop them back in. What they believe is theory and not really evidence based. Non-traditional chiro's aren't like that, though. They won't use terms like 'pop back in place' or 'adjustments'. These could be used as red flags to tell if a Chiro is full of crap or not. I agree 100% that the whole 'out of place' thing is as up there with witch craft. They would probably 'adjust' you if you went in complaining about having a cold.

There are Chiro's who don't practice like this, though. Infact in many cases you wouldn't be able to tell if you were seeing a physio or a chiro.

Also, joint 'manipulation' is not the same thing as 'adjustments' and not limited to Chiro's. Physio's (many of whom are 'real doctors')and other physicians also use these. In other realms they're simply called 'mobilisations'.

I am by no means an expert on these things but I'm aware that not all Chiro's are the same.

With regards to stretching etc and having no evidence. Well, I don't really know how you would quantify such a thing. What are you stretching, why are you stretching it, and how are you stretching it? You need to answer these questions first before even trying to figure out whether it's worth while or not. Most of the time stretching is symptom based and doesn't address the root of the problem. That doesn't mean it's useless but it does mean it won't hold up, alone, in a scientific setting i.e. "we stretched these muscles in these subjects for X amount of weeks and nothing happened". Of course nothing would happen. You need to ask "why is the muscle stiff/short" and address that. It's like that for a reason and it's not the fault of the muscle that 'needs' stretched.

It's like foam rolling. As I understand it there's no 'evidence' to show that foam rolling 'works'. There won't be. Again it's sympton based. Knots/adhesions appear for a reason. Figure out what that reason is and they won't appear again without ever going near a foam roller. Z-Health believe foam rolling is useless (funnily enough Dr Eric Cobb is a chiro!). However, in the real world you just won't get at the cause 100% and, it takes a few minutes so there's not doubt it's worth doing. In my mind anyway.

KPj
Yea, that's true there is that small minority that are more like a PT doctor with a masters instead of a PHD. Nothing wrong with that.

However CA seems to be talking about the quacky kind. That's also what people think of when you say chiro.

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Post by Ironman » Thu May 13, 2010 2:49 am

caangelxox wrote:
caangelxox wrote:
Proper Knob wrote:Caang, i just read your post to my girlfriend who as has a degree in Sports Therapy and an Msc (Master of Science) in Rehabilitation Science, which is physiotherapy. She laughed. In short she thinks you're being taken for a ride, ripped off, your wallet 'adjusted' etc etc.

Here's why, a good physio will diagnose what your particular problem is, that may take a single session, or it may take two, in extreme cases if it's something that is difficult to diagnose it may take three. But they will find the root of the problem and give you the appropriate exercises for you to go away and fix the problem yourself. In the process of diagnosing you they may perform some 'mobilisations', they may 'release' some muscle tissue that is particularly tight. But they will diagnose your problem and tell you how to begin to fix it yourself.

Those that continually tell you to keep coming back again and again and again, are not doing their job properly. Stay well clear of them and find another one. This advice isn't from me but my girlfriend who is a qualified physio!!!! I can't put it any plainer than that.
knob, they dont ask me to come back again and again. I rarely ever have to go. The last time I went was when I sprained my ankle last september and the adjustment they made to hit (the huge pop) healed it and the next day I did not need a brace anymore. also my ankles are strong now. no sprains or problems since. my chiro wants you in and out. the adjustments usually last no more than 10-15 minutes. and its also hard to get an appointment at this place too, have 2 get it 2 weeks in advanced because it is so booked up. you will never believe me until you see him yourself. I also know a lot of people that prevented surgery by seeing the chiro at the place I go to when I need to. a lot of people go every 6 months or rarely at all. this place wants to heal you..they dont want your money..the person that works the front desk doesnt pressure u either.

That's what I thought you would say. I've had countless conversations that go just like that. It never matters what evidence is presented either. The belief has taken root.

KPj
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Post by KPj » Thu May 13, 2010 3:51 am

Ironman wrote:
Yea, that's true there is that small minority that are more like a PT doctor with a masters instead of a PHD. Nothing wrong with that.

However CA seems to be talking about the quacky kind. That's also what people think of when you say chiro.
I agree. Good manual therapists of any sort are very hard to find. Also agree that CA is talking about teh quacky kind. The fact is if he/she was any good then all of her 'issues' would of been resolved in about 4-5 sessions, tops, unless she had something serious.

How many times would you take your car to a garage before you decided they were crap, couldn't fix it and take it somewhere else? It's amazing. With cars, people will take it back to the same garage maybe 2-3 times. With their own body, they'll take it back to the same 'garage' every week for years and not think anything of it....

KPj

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Post by frogbyte » Thu May 13, 2010 10:49 am

Ironman wrote:
frogbyte wrote:
Ironman wrote:There is no evidence that is the case. For the fourth time, I might add.
What, no evidence that stretching makes you flexible?
straw man
That's not what I said and you know it.
Sure sounded like that was what you were saying, but you're being even more cryptic than usual.

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tennis elbow

Post by Rick Olderman » Mon May 17, 2010 3:30 pm

It's too bad some of you think I'm a spammer because I mention my book about shoulder and elbow pain. In my view, the problem is there is a lot of poor information floating around out there and I didn't see anything that seemed particularly helpful on your thread--so I thought I'd chime in with something that actually was helpful.
The fact that I mention more conclusive information can be found in my book shouldn't negate the facts behind the causes of tennis elbow. The reason it is so pervasive and noone seems to know how to fix it is because they haven't thought more deeply about the anatomy and biomechanics that underlie the problem. I'm a physical therapist who specializes on chronic pain and so have thought more deeply about the root causes of this pervasive problem. It may be hard to believe but I believe I've discovered the anatomical and biomechanical roots of this issue.
It's too complicated to give you a discourse on this thread so I mention that the scapula is key to the issue which then creates forearm issues as a consequence.
If you still think I'm spamming then I'll refrain from commenting further.
Best,

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Post by ApolytonGP » Mon May 17, 2010 3:49 pm

If you wanted to engage in discussion, I would think of you as a poster. This last post, shows more of the spammer attitude.

Oh...and if you have a breakthrough, do controlled studies and write them up in the best journals you can get through. Not your cookie cutter, series of books. :mad:

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Re: tennis elbow

Post by Ironman » Fri May 21, 2010 3:39 am

Rick Olderman wrote:It's too bad some of you think I'm a spammer because I mention my book about shoulder and elbow pain. In my view, the problem is there is a lot of poor information floating around out there and I didn't see anything that seemed particularly helpful on your thread--so I thought I'd chime in with something that actually was helpful.
The fact that I mention more conclusive information can be found in my book shouldn't negate the facts behind the causes of tennis elbow. The reason it is so pervasive and noone seems to know how to fix it is because they haven't thought more deeply about the anatomy and biomechanics that underlie the problem. I'm a physical therapist who specializes on chronic pain and so have thought more deeply about the root causes of this pervasive problem. It may be hard to believe but I believe I've discovered the anatomical and biomechanical roots of this issue.
It's too complicated to give you a discourse on this thread so I mention that the scapula is key to the issue which then creates forearm issues as a consequence.
If you still think I'm spamming then I'll refrain from commenting further.
Best,
The phrase "....some of you......", is not accurate. It's just one guy. One of the least luminous elliptical spheroids on the conifer too, if you know what I mean.

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Post by Ironman » Fri May 21, 2010 3:41 am

ApolytonGP wrote:If you wanted to engage in discussion, I would think of you as a poster. This last post, shows more of the spammer attitude.

Oh...and if you have a breakthrough, do controlled studies and write them up in the best journals you can get through. Not your cookie cutter, series of books. :mad:
WTF?
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Post by quadfrog » Sat May 22, 2010 9:50 pm

I turned sixty in February and have been lifting, mostly with free weights, for much of my adult life. Shortly after my birthday, I developed "golfers' elbow." I believe it was the result of raking leaves....the day after a pretty good back/arm session in the gym.

Being a sensible and fairly intelligent fellow, I went to my medical doctor, not a bone cracker. He have me a shot of cortisone where it hurt and told me to back-off the puling for a week. During the past few months, I have resumed my workouts with full intensity and no pain.
Squeeze life until it bleeds.

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