What wrecks shoulders (worse)-dips or bench presses?

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Which is more of a shoulder-wrecker?

Dips
3
30%
BB Bench presses
3
30%
BB Military presses
4
40%
 
Total votes: 10

Sideros
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What wrecks shoulders (worse)-dips or bench presses?

Post by Sideros » Thu May 13, 2010 6:44 am

Hello,

It has been said a billion times, that bench presses will eventually wreck your shoulders... (Dan John, Dave Tate etc) Ok.
Now, do dips also pose a great risk to one's shoulder joint? Considering he is to do them for ~a lifetime (or at least until he is so old he can no longer do one)
Presuming one uses perfect technique, only dipping till upper arm is parallel to ground, a few weeks layoff every year, periodization etc.

Thanks,
Sideros
Last edited by Sideros on Thu May 13, 2010 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.


robertscott
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Post by robertscott » Thu May 13, 2010 7:30 am

i reckon bench, not only is it hard on the shoulder, folk generally use terrible form

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Post by KPj » Thu May 13, 2010 8:56 am

Where do Dan John and Dave Tate say that? (i'm a big fan of both and never seen that)

If technique is perfect then you're in a different ball game. Most people don't lift with good technique. If they did, there would be much fewer problems.

Then all your left with is volume (you mentioned periodisation) - So, i'm assuming you're referring to using perfect technique along with appropriate volume? In that case, like the above, most people bench way too much.

If you take crappy technique and volume out of the equation, I think both exercises are perfectly safe. This is also coming from someone who experienced a lot of shoulder problems by using both crappy technique as well as inappropriate volume....

KPj

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Post by Sideros » Thu May 13, 2010 9:04 am

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... h-dan-john

Here's Dan John.

Sorry, I'm not sure if Dave said this. :D

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Post by KPj » Thu May 13, 2010 9:33 am

Thanks for the link.

I still stick to what I said, though. I don't understand how with appropriate technique and volume, the bench press could be anymore harmfull than anyother exericise. However, i'm just a young buck. Maybe when I'm Dan Johns age my opinion will change.

KPj


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Post by Jungledoc » Thu May 13, 2010 10:12 am

I think they're all dangerous, along with lateral raises, flyes, and wide-grip pull-ups. The best policy is to have your upper body encased on a large bulky cast so that the shoulders don't move, and they will never get hurt.

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Post by frogbyte » Thu May 13, 2010 10:58 am

I don't really understand that comment in the linked article. Bench is bad after age 40 because it makes your shoulder tight? What changes at age 40? And why not just work on shoulder mobility so it doesn't get tight?

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Post by Sideros » Thu May 13, 2010 12:03 pm

Well, of what I know the problem with the bench is (said to be) that it locks your scapulae in a fixed position (while, on the other hand, push-ups are shoulder "savers"). So yes, one can say the bench is more "dangerous" than the push-up (even when the push- up is weighted)

@Jungledoc: behind the neck presses and pull-ups, and upright rows are generally considered (by Eric Cressey and many others) to be unsafe.
And yes, anything has some risks. But there's a risk in deadlifting with perfect form (regardless of weight), and a whole other risk doing cleans with a round back.

Anyway, these are not my opinions, I'm just trying to learn. :)

And since I've heard people saying dips are also a "dangerous" exercise, I wanted to know somewhat more clearly if they are known (anecdotally) to do damage in the long run.

Known,i.e. like the bench press is often said to.

Thanks

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Post by Matt Z » Thu May 13, 2010 5:02 pm

It's really an individual thing. Name just about any exercise and someone is going to have problems with it. That doesn't make it a bad exercise, just a bad choice for that lifter. Instead of worrying about which lifts are "good" or "bad" exercises, focus on whether or not you can perform each lift comfortably. It you can't, change something (grip, stance, etc), or replace it with another exercise.

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Post by Rucifer » Thu May 13, 2010 7:04 pm

Jungledoc wrote:I think they're all dangerous, along with lateral raises, flyes, and wide-grip pull-ups. The best policy is to have your upper body encased on a large bulky cast so that the shoulders don't move, and they will never get hurt.
:lol: I had a good chuckle at this

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Post by Rucifer » Thu May 13, 2010 7:07 pm

I've had worse experience with dips personally. But I don't blame the exercise- I blame what I was doing outside of the weightroom, and then realizing it was affecting my shoulders cause dips and shoulder presses made me notice. I corrected my out of weightroom practices and haven't had a prob since. But I still do dips just more for muscular endurance rather than for muscle gain.

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Post by Nevage » Thu May 13, 2010 8:22 pm

I must have really flexible shoulders or something but I regularly do bench press, lateral raises, upright rows, behind the neck presses etc and have never had even a slight bit of discomfort from the 7 years I first picked up a weight. I remember when I first tried upright rows there was a bit of tightness, but that soon fixed itself after a few weeks.

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Post by ApolytonGP » Thu May 13, 2010 9:49 pm

I have a bad labrum and all of them impact it, but the order is

military>bench>dips

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Post by ApolytonGP » Thu May 13, 2010 9:51 pm

I read an interesting article on torn pecs when Morgan Hamm tore his. I put it on his forum. It was a really good article and noted that both weighted dips and steroid use were heavily correlated to tearing pecs (and every instance of a double tear was with weighted dips). Not to scare you or anything. :lol:

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Post by KPj » Fri May 14, 2010 4:20 am

I have a bad labrum too. Drinking coffee impacts it.

I just think there's far too many factors to consider before you even choose an exercise - Injury history, asymmetries, posture, movement, acromion type, loading, progression, volume, daily life/job, what else you're doing in the gym, what you're NOT doing in the gym, etc.

If it's personal experience then i've had bad experiences with almost every pressing exercise. Including push ups. However, it was nothing to do with the exercises. It was more to do with - posture, movement, loading, volume, daily life, and the other stuff I was doing in the gym as well as stuff I wasn't doing.

KPj


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