is working out shoulders really necessary ?

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward

mastaoeks
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 pm

is working out shoulders really necessary ?

Post by mastaoeks » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:28 pm

please discuss


User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:34 pm

I think this needs a more detailed question. I suspect that there is more to this than meets the eye. My first response was to be a bit sarcastic (what? Jungledoc sarcastic? It's never happened here before!) and say something like, "Only if you want strong shoulders". If you mean, "Is it necessary to isolate shoulders?" than the answer is, "depending on your goals and needs, probably not".

The compound upper-body lifts work the shoulders quite well, so if you are doing a balance of pushing and pulling, you should be taking care of the shoulders. In fact, it is hard not to work the shoulders if you are doing upper-body exercises. The exceptions would be for rehab/prehab for shoulder problems, or for body builders trying to "bring up" specific muscles.
Last edited by Jungledoc on Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NightFaLL
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 am

Post by NightFaLL » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:37 pm

If you're referring to OHP, then no, it's not necessary from a hypertrophy stand point.

Is it beneficial from a strength stand point? Of course.

Front delts get hit heavily in flat/incline bench.

Lateral delts can be hypertrophied doing lateral raises (They have minimal use in overhead press, anyways.)

Rear delts get worked during any pulling motion along with face pull-type movements.

So, it rreally depends on your goals. Do you want big shoulders, then it's not really a necessity.

If you want to be able to push $h1t above your head, then it is.

mastaoeks
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 pm

Post by mastaoeks » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:40 pm

thats exactly what i meant , is isolating shoulders necessary . thanks for the input

User avatar
ApolytonGP
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1122
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:44 am

Post by ApolytonGP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:51 pm

Wow...this is an insight for me. didn't realize I would get tacit approval to blow off OHP! :razz:


User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:02 pm

ApolytonGP wrote:Wow...this is an insight for me. didn't realize I would get tacit approval to blow off OHP! :razz:
If you have a reason to not do OHP, like not being able to raise you arms over your head, then do what you can to accommodate your limitations. However, if you can't lift your arms over your head, you should get that sorted out because you have a bigger problem. :blob8:

NightFaLL
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 am

Post by NightFaLL » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:07 pm

ApolytonGP wrote:Wow...this is an insight for me. didn't realize I would get tacit approval to blow off OHP! :razz:
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm saying it isn't necessary for delt hypertrophy.

Lots o' ways to skin a cat.

However, I still think your training program is ridiculously out of whack and you really need to change it.

mastaoeks
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 pm

Post by mastaoeks » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:48 pm

what the hell is ohp ?

wilburburns
Member
Member
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Post by wilburburns » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:54 pm

mastaoeks wrote:what the hell is ohp ?
Overhead Press aka Military Press

Cliff

User avatar
ApolytonGP
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1122
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:44 am

Post by ApolytonGP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:44 pm

stuward wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:Wow...this is an insight for me. didn't realize I would get tacit approval to blow off OHP! :razz:
If you have a reason to not do OHP, like not being able to raise you arms over your head, then do what you can to accommodate your limitations. However, if you can't lift your arms over your head, you should get that sorted out because you have a bigger problem. :blob8:
I think you are on target, Stu. Am having more and more issues with right side of the body and I know from the MRI, that there are deficiencies in the shoulder. My PCP (who is also a sports med guy) warned me that I would start getting more and more tendonopathy in the back and upper arm as a result of overcompensation for the bad GH joint. I was having fun lifting and progressing, but now am starting to feel bad even in the bicep and tricep. Weird thing is that I actually hypertrophied that upper arm more also. Something about how I try to compensate for the missing labrum. I should probably break down and get another surgery. Just...I already rolled the dice once and it didn't work (even used a "name" surgeon.) this time...I need to be more all over the process and know what they are doing exactly.

I'm very inclined to get it open too. I had the scope done and got a poor outcome. I really suspect medicine of being too "trendy" here. The anatomy is complicated and I think they will see it better and operate better if they open it.

It's kind of a big deal though and I have been playing avoidance. Need to break down and see an open surgery doc (there are still few) and read up more on the anatomy and all.

robertscott
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Post by robertscott » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:41 pm

Everyone (who can) should definitely do some kind of shoulder press. It's one of the best there is! It's part of Arnie's big 6, Dan John in a thing I read the other day says he hardly ever benches but he military presses loads, it's just the business.

Might not be necessary from an aesthetic point of view and various raises might be better for that purpose, but heaven forbid you might have to actually lift something heavy above your head some time in your day to day, non-gym life.

nygmen
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Mass, USA

Post by nygmen » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:58 pm

is working the shoulders necessary?
yes

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:06 pm

nygmen wrote:
is working the shoulders necessary?
yes
Heck, try not working the shoulders while still working the upper body. Or pulling weight from the floor. Let me know how that works out for you. :wink:

mastaoeks
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 pm

Post by mastaoeks » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:21 pm

read above . i meant isolating shoulders .
i work construction that gives me plenty of shoulder work outside of the gym

robertscott
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Post by robertscott » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:26 am

mastaoeks wrote:read above . i meant isolating shoulders .
i work construction that gives me plenty of shoulder work outside of the gym
in that case, the answer is still yes. If you want balanced development of all the different heads of your delts you'll need to do rear and lateral raises. The front delts'll get enough work pushing.


Locked