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Deadlift Sets & Reps for Mass

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:00 pm
by Rik-Blades
Just a quick one for you guy's...

I'm currently deadlifting 5x5 (working sets that is) at approx 80% 1RM

I'm making progress (adding weight) every session, but the last 2 sessions i've felt wasted for upto 4 days after. Form starts to suffer after set 3.

Is 5x5 too much? Or should I stop complaining? :roll:

Re: Deadlift Sets & Reps for Mass

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:04 pm
by NightFaLL
Rik-Blades wrote:Just a quick one for you guy's...

I'm currently deadlifting 5x5 (working sets that is) at approx 80% 1RM

I'm making progress (adding weight) every session, but the last 2 sessions i've felt wasted for upto 4 days after. Form starts to suffer after set 3.

Is 5x5 too much? Or should I stop complaining? :roll:
Deadlift is a full body exercise, using more upper body musculature than a squat.

Are you giving yourself adequate rest and how many times a week do you deadlift?

Deadlifting heavy, often, can really drain the CNS especially if you're trying to cut weight.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:22 pm
by Rik-Blades
NightFall wrote:Deadlift is a full body exercise, using more upper body musculature than a squat.

Are you giving yourself adequate rest and how many times a week do you deadlift?

Deadlifting heavy, often, can really drain the CNS especially if you're trying to cut weight.
I alternate squats and deadlifts, i'll squat, then say 3-4 days later i'll deadlift, then 3-4 days after that back to squat.

I have been losing weight though, i've reduced my carbs right down, but still making gains on all my lifts.

I wondering if I need the last 2 sets. I keep the weight the same across all 5 sets.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:39 pm
by NightFaLL
Honestly, I'd be willing to bet you're just doing it too often while dieting.

If you were at maintenance or eating more than you needed, you might be alright.

I'd recommend dropping the sets or simply cutting back the frequency some.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:46 pm
by ApolytonGP
3*5?

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:53 pm
by frogbyte
As my deadlifts moved up in weight I started to find multiple working sets were too much. I find deadlift recovery is basically comparable to recovery from sets across of singles on most other moves.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:19 pm
by Rik-Blades
ApolytonGP wrote:3*5?
15!
frogbyte wrote:I find deadlift recovery is basically comparable to recovery from sets across of singles on most other moves.
I'm not sure what you mean by that? Can you clarify?
NightFall wrote:Honestly, I'd be willing to bet you're just doing it too often while dieting.

If you were at maintenance or eating more than you needed, you might be alright.

I'd recommend dropping the sets or simply cutting back the frequency some.
Sounds perfectly sensible.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:37 pm
by Ricky
Adjust your diet so you have adequate nutrition during your workout and don't get as tired.

That would be my advice. I don't think it has as much to do with the reps/sets.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:44 pm
by ApolytonGP
You could do drop sets as well. Maybe 80%RM is just too much for 5*5.

And this is not well thought out, but I'm not sure you need to be completely rested to keep growing. Like I do a lot of lifting with only 1 day of intermediate rest. But I'm stronger if I had 2 or 3 days intermediate rest. Nevertheless, I seem to get stronger, anayway, in terms of total capacity over time, even if the individual workouts are somewaht not as strong.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:56 pm
by NightFaLL
ApolytonGP wrote:You could do drop sets as well. Maybe 80%RM is just too much for 5*5.

And this is not well thought out, but I'm not sure you need to be completely rested to keep growing. Like I do a lot of lifting with only 1 day of intermediate rest. But I'm stronger if I had 2 or 3 days intermediate rest. Nevertheless, I seem to get stronger, anayway, in terms of total capacity over time, even if the individual workouts are somewaht not as strong.
You also don't do deadlifts or squats, which means your recovery time and his is like comparing apples to oranges.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:13 pm
by frogbyte
Rik-Blades wrote:
frogbyte wrote:I find deadlift recovery is basically comparable to recovery from sets across of singles on most other moves.
I'm not sure what you mean by that? Can you clarify?
Well, since on a true deadlift, you're pausing to breathe briefly at the bottom, there's a moment of rest there. This has an effect similar to a full release of the weight as in a single. And singles are more taxing to recover from.

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:40 am
by KPj
If you're dieting then 5x5 must be pretty brutal. A set of 5 on deadlifts is like a cold day in hell for me. I still do them, though but I'll take heavy singles anyday!

One thing I would mention is that if your form is going after 3 sets, then drop the weight. Think 'technical failure' especially on deadlifts.

These things normally happen because you'r enot eating enough, resting or sleeping enough, or you're just doing too much. Since you're dieting, then it makes sense you're not eating enough, because that's what dieting is.

In all honesty the way I would do it or have done it when dieting is just working up to a heavy singe, double or triple for that day. Then I'll do a couple of light sets as a form check then move on to assistance stuff which will generally be higher reps, shorter rest, get you out of breath stuff.

Unless you're a newbie, then, typically, you're not going to get stronger when dieting but you do want to KEEP your strength. 5 x 5 for me is sacrificing total load lifted for total reps performed but I think the higher load with less reps would help your goals more (keeping your strength and therefore, muscle mass).

KPj

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:39 am
by Rik-Blades
frogbyte wrote:Well, since on a true deadlift, you're pausing to breathe briefly at the bottom, there's a moment of rest there. This has an effect similar to a full release of the weight as in a single. And singles are more taxing to recover from.
Okay, I understand that. Thanks.
KPj wrote:One thing I would mention is that if your form is going after 3 sets, then drop the weight. Think 'technical failure' especially on deadlifts.
This is maybe where i'm coming from. I'd say my form has always suffered beyond 3 sets. I just like to do extra, maybe stupidly, to make sure there's enough stimulus.
These things normally happen because you'r enot eating enough, resting or sleeping enough, or you're just doing too much. Since you're dieting, then it makes sense you're not eating enough, because that's what dieting is.
Yeah, diet. That keeps coming up.
I've dropped my carbs down more, but not the calories. But i'm losing fat just the same. Perhaps i've not quite adjusted yet? i've gone from 150g per day to just below 100g. It does seem that recovery has suffered along with the drop, it's been about 2 weeks now.
In all honesty the way I would do it or have done it when dieting is just working up to a heavy singe, double or triple for that day. Then I'll do a couple of light sets as a form check then move on to assistance stuff which will generally be higher reps, shorter rest, get you out of breath stuff.
What i'll do then is this:

Keep the diet where it is.
3 x 5 working sets (normal)
2 x doubles/singles (see how I feel)
Assistance stuff.

Perhaps the last 2 sets has always been a bit much.

Thanks for all the reply's

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:13 am
by KPj
Yeah, give it a try and see how it goes. Just sounds like you were trying to increase strength, and size, AND lose fat. Probably just a case of biting off more than you can chew.

I really don't know why your form would suffer after "3 sets". I would re phrase this to, "I use too much weight after 3 sets".... :wink:

Sorry in advance as I break into a little rant....

It's just something I hear a lot. On DL's, don't do more than X sets, or X reps, because it's so demanding that your form will break down, etc etc. Why not just use a weight that you can do said sets and reps with good form?

I reckon I do stupid amounts of sets on Deadlift sometimes. Me and my training partners often get carried away on a fri night, when we DL. We normally have the gym to ourselves. We'll end up, for example, trying to get a clean 5RM for that day, then it'll go down to triples, then doubles, until we're firing out singles. Way may go to our heaviest single then leave it at that, or we'll knock 5% off and keep getitng singles. Until finishing on a couple of higher rep sets. Sometimes we'll just deadlift for an hour or so. Not that this is a good way to train or anything, it's just because we end up really enjoying it and don't want to stop.

However, If my form goes they tell me. If their form goes I/we tell them. When that happens, either reps come down or weight comes down.

YOu also have 5-3-1 Boring but Big template. On DL day you would do 3 sets with the third being your all out set. Followed by 5 sets of 10....

KPj

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:33 pm
by Han
5 sets of 10 :eek:

I would need a paramedic on hand with a defibrilator.