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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:45 pm
by stuward
I was looking for "exercise" but this time I looked for "muscle Mass".

Try this: http://www.cbass.com/Biomarkers.htm

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:15 pm
by Jungledoc
Stu--Thanks! I think this has to be in reference to the same thing that Poliquin is talking about. I'll use this to do some more searching this evening (it's lunch time now, and I just want to relax with my coffee.) I tried searching briefly for an on-line copy of the publication it's referring to, but I'll look harder later.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:56 am
by pdellorto
Jungledoc wrote:Stu--Thanks! I think this has to be in reference to the same thing that Poliquin is talking about. I'll use this to do some more searching this evening (it's lunch time now, and I just want to relax with my coffee.) I tried searching briefly for an on-line copy of the publication it's referring to, but I'll look harder later.
I blogged about this after reading the Bass article and finding the Tufts article:

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/201 ... rkers.html

I'm waiting on my hardcopy of the book.

I suspect, though, that based on the article, that muscle mass isn't the #1 ranked indicator, just that it's #1 of 10 in a list of 10 items. We'll see if the book confirms or denies that.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:42 am
by Jungledoc
Well, now I'm looking for that supplement to the Tufts University Health & Nutrition Letter. It was a supplement to the May, 2006 issue. The contents of the newsletter itself is posted on line, but it doesn't mention the supplement. I'd be happy to buy the issue for $5, if I was sure that I'd get the supplement. Does anyone here subscribe, or have access to a library that does? Would anyone be willing to look up that supplement?

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:20 am
by stuward
Andy, that document Peter linked to is the 2006 special supplement.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:43 am
by Jungledoc
Well, this looks like I'm pretty muddle-headed, which, at times, I am. I started to write the post above, then was called to supper (which call I never fail to heed!) and then finished after supper, not noticing that Peter had posted the link. Later I decided to read Peter's blog, and he talked about it there.

I had missed it when I was searching the Tufts newsletter site, as I was expecting to see the word "Biomarkers" in the title. Peter has promised a review of the book.

By the way, if you don't read Peter's blog, you should:
http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:27 am
by pdellorto
Jungledoc wrote:I had missed it when I was searching the Tufts newsletter site, as I was expecting to see the word "Biomarkers" in the title. Peter has promised a review of the book.

By the way, if you don't read Peter's blog, you should:
http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the plug. I try to keep it useful. I re-link a fair amount of stuff that gets discussed here, because not everyone reads everything here (or reads these forums in the first place) . . . and because it makes it much easier for me to find it again when I need to!

I found that article by persistence and date, mostly. I knew the date, so I just kept looking until I found that issue. It's a bit odd it's a PDF with no extension on the stored file. Who saves an article as "4010" with no extension? Just laziness not to go fix it, that's what I think.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:36 pm
by Jungledoc
It was odd. But my computer fixed it. The first time it opened as a window of nonsense, but when I double-clicked the file in the download window, it hesitated then opened normally, and it is saved as a PDF without my doing anything.

I love my Mac.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:36 am
by Jason Nunn
Sorry guys. I've been extremly busy this week and haven't been able to look for the info. Thanks Peter for doing so. I feel like I'm partially responsible for this since I reposted the links on my blog. Lesson learned. I'll be sure to add the actual research to my blog before posting it in the future.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:08 pm
by pdellorto
Jason, you charge nothing for your blog. It's probably fine if you post the links and we all follow up on the research links for stuff we're really interested in.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:11 pm
by taifun
Peter's blog is awesome!

I don't have a copy of the book, so I don't know which studies Biomarkers refers to, but here's a list of recent research from Tufts on aging and muscle mass (all of which is too recent to have made it into Biomarkers).

Just from skimming the abstracts of those studies, and looking at the studies that cite 'em (via google scholar), it looks like there's a lot of epidemiological evidence that lean mass correlates to good outcomes, but no intervention studies or even attempts to tease out causal relationships using instrumental variables.

There are some controlled trials on strength training, but the ones I've found so far target specific conditions (e.g., diabetes) rather than general health/mortality.

Skeletal muscle cutpoints associated with elevated physical disability risk in older men and women is interesting. Check out Figure 1: it looks like a higher skeletal muscle index is bad past a certain range. For men, that may just be because of a single outlier along with the use of a quadratic fit even though it's not obvious that that's the right curve to fit to. For females, the relationship looks real, though.

In the discussion, the authors note that women with higher muscle mass also have a lot more fat mass, but that women have to achieve "a high level of obesity" before their outcomes become a lot worse. I wonder why the same result doesn't hold in men -- is it that fat mass is less strongly correlated with muscle mass in men? That seems plausible, but I'd like to see the data.

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:53 am
by Jungledoc
Thanks, taifun! What's your background? Are you involved in some type of research?

Thanks for the link to the list of publications. I had seen and saved many of those titles as I was searching for the Biomarkers update supplement.

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:27 pm
by taifun
I'm a grad student (until the end of the month), so I'm involved in research, but it's machine learning/statistical design stuff, so I don't have any particular expertise in health/kinesiology/epidemiology issues.

I just happen to have been reading a lot about, umm, geriatric health recently because my father is in his 70s, and I'm trying to figure out what I can do to help keep his health up. Maybe you can train him if you open up a gym in Madison when you retire ;-).

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:37 pm
by pdellorto
taifun wrote:Peter's blog is awesome!
Thanks!
taifun wrote:I don't have a copy of the book, so I don't know which studies Biomarkers refers to, but here's a list of recent research from Tufts on aging and muscle mass (all of which is too recent to have made it into Biomarkers).
Wow. I'll leave those to you and Jungledoc...that's a little more than I could bring myself to read on the subject. Still, thanks for digging that up!

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:13 am
by Helena115
Jungledoc wrote:You could copy some "figure athletes" photos from T-Nation and post them around the house with captions like "this is what women who lift weights end up looking like".

What's that you say? Not a good idea? Well, it wouldn't work very well at my house either.
Really? When you people post those kinds of photos on here it sure motivates me to work out, sheesh.