5X5

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward

Post Reply
A. moss
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Columbus, IN

5X5

Post by A. moss » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:59 pm

I don't know if any of you guys remember me posting my new 5X5 routine on here a week or so ago or not but I'll post it again if need be.

I've been doing 5X5 for a week know and I'm not feeling much "burn" during or after the workout, what is the hardest way in your opinion to do 5X5's? or sense I'm working every muscle group 3 time a week dose it matter? I'm doing it for strength for size (if that makes sense). But I'm looking for a way to make that ripping/tight feeling noticeable (during the workout or immediately following).

I also have another question, how do you increase your 1RM? Do you just left the most possible for a month and then increase 5 pounds or do you lift just 5 pounds over your max until you can lift it, then put five more so you cant?

I've been doing it the first way and I'm only increasing 5 pounds every 3 months or more, is that normal? And is it possible to increase it faster or am I'm just not working hard enough and that being the reason why I'm increasing so slowly? I've read you guys saying on here that people my age work to hard and stun there muscles and I'm sure that I WAS one of those people (doing tones of Curls ["to get my Bi's huge" haha] and doing Controlled Motion Machines [any time I could], focusing on the previous two and never doing Squats) but I'm trying to lower my time in the weight room and pass on ya'lls message. I workout with my friends some times a they will spend 2 and a half hours in the gym and I'm just watching them and telling them there screwing them self's out of gains for about 1 hour and 45 minutes to an hour and a half. I'm just concerned, sorry about the long post.

Ricky
Novice
Novice
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:07 am
Location: San Francisco

Post by Ricky » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:30 pm

If you want to feel that sore like you got a good workout you should probably be doing closer to where I'm at and blast one muscle group each day with a bunch of workouts for different angles. If you're doing that you definitely shouldn't be doing each group 3 times a week... Maybe once.

If you're blasting it and trying to get real sore you would be way too sore to work it out 3X a week. If you're doing it that often you're probably going for more of a whole body thing which isn't what I do... but you won't get as sore (and you shouldn't).

Just to put it in perspective, I'll go to the gym to do say... legs or maybe arms and I'll spend 2-3 hours just on that. I'll get really sore after but it makes me feel like I had a good workout and I have a desk job so it doesn't really matter anyway.

Also, I wouldn't use the scale as much of a barometer. That can be misleading. The mirror is a better judge. You can turn bodyfat into muscle and even if you're in good shape you can still have a fairly significant amount and so you may start to look better but not gain any weight. If you're eating enough that's probably fine and 5 lbs of muscle would be a lot anyway. If you're a hard gainer like me 5 lbs in 3 months is pretty f'ing good!

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:04 pm

Feeling a burn or feeling exhausted is not an indication that your program is making you stronger. The only thing you can go by is the weight on the bar. If you're doing more weight, or more reps with the same weight, you're getting stronger.

What method of 5x5 are you doing, ramped or straight across?

How you progress depends on how long you've been training but in general, any time you get your prescribed reps for the planned weight, you add weight for the following workout. A young guy like you should be adding weight at least once a month.

A. moss
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Columbus, IN

Post by A. moss » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:39 pm

Ricky wrote:If you want to feel that sore like you got a good workout you should probably be doing closer to where I'm at and blast one muscle group each day with a bunch of workouts for different angles. If you're doing that you definitely shouldn't be doing each group 3 times a week... Maybe once.

If you're blasting it and trying to get real sore you would be way too sore to work it out 3X a week. If you're doing it that often you're probably going for more of a whole body thing which isn't what I do... but you won't get as sore (and you shouldn't).

Just to put it in perspective, I'll go to the gym to do say... legs or maybe arms and I'll spend 2-3 hours just on that. I'll get really sore after but it makes me feel like I had a good workout and I have a desk job so it doesn't really matter anyway.

Also, I wouldn't use the scale as much of a barometer. That can be misleading. The mirror is a better judge. You can turn bodyfat into muscle and even if you're in good shape you can still have a fairly significant amount and so you may start to look better but not gain any weight. If you're eating enough that's probably fine and 5 lbs of muscle would be a lot anyway. If you're a hard gainer like me 5 lbs in 3 months is pretty f'ing good!

I'm not concerned with DOMS, I don't really care if I'm "real sore". I just want to feel tight after my session (I don't care if it goes away in a half hour) that way I know I didn't waist my workout.

I guess I should clarify: I meant I'm only gaining 5 pounds on the weight I'm lifting, (1RM).

It sounds like your more into size gains. I'm trying to gain strength, if I only "Blast one muscle group each day" it will take me a week to recover and I'm not going to gain as much strength as if I'm working them 2-3 times a week.

A. moss
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Columbus, IN

Post by A. moss » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:11 am

stuward wrote:Feeling a burn or feeling exhausted is not an indication that your program is making you stronger. The only thing you can go by is the weight on the bar. If you're doing more weight, or more reps with the same weight, you're getting stronger.

What method of 5x5 are you doing, ramped or straight across?

How you progress depends on how long you've been training but in general, any time you get your prescribed reps for the planned weight, you add weight for the following workout. A young guy like you should be adding weight at least once a month.


Okay, I'm not feeling any burn is that still okay? I'm lifting as much weight as I can possibly do without losing form.

Right now I'm doing Ramped, but if I'm directed to Straight Across then I'll do that.

I was afraid of that. I'm VERY lucky if I go up once a month..... so your saying I should make a very small goal (5 pounds [210]) and when I achieve that make an other very small goal (5 pounds [215]) and so on?

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:09 am

Ricky wrote:If you want to feel that sore like you got a good workout you should probably be doing closer to where I'm at and blast one muscle group each day with a bunch of workouts for different angles. If you're doing that you definitely shouldn't be doing each group 3 times a week... Maybe once.

If you're blasting it and trying to get real sore you would be way too sore to work it out 3X a week. If you're doing it that often you're probably going for more of a whole body thing which isn't what I do... but you won't get as sore (and you shouldn't).

Just to put it in perspective, I'll go to the gym to do say... legs or maybe arms and I'll spend 2-3 hours just on that. I'll get really sore after but it makes me feel like I had a good workout and I have a desk job so it doesn't really matter anyway.

Also, I wouldn't use the scale as much of a barometer. That can be misleading. The mirror is a better judge. You can turn bodyfat into muscle and even if you're in good shape you can still have a fairly significant amount and so you may start to look better but not gain any weight. If you're eating enough that's probably fine and 5 lbs of muscle would be a lot anyway. If you're a hard gainer like me 5 lbs in 3 months is pretty f'ing good!
I don't know a gentle way to say this, so I'll just say, don't do any of that. Your goal is NOT to make yourself sore; that's not any way to gauge the effectiveness of your workouts. And don't try to do 3 different isolation exercises for the same muscle. That approach usually doesn't "work the muscle from different angles". For most muscles if the muscle is working it's working, period. Given your goal of overall strength and size, doing 3 isolation lifts for the same muscle is a very inefficient use of your time in the gym. And for goodness sakes, don't spend 2-3 hours in the gym. Much over an hour is losing effectiveness, and over 2 is counterproductive.

You are doing the right thing in "lifting as much as you can without losing form". You definitely shouldn't be "grinding" out the last sets and going to absolute failure.

You might actually try dropping a few pounds from the bar, and work your way back up. You may find that you can keep going beyond the point where you are now. Otherwise, it may be time to start looking at periodized training.

User avatar
TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
Posts: 3129
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Va Beach, Va

Post by TimD » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:44 am

You won't feel a burn with 5x5. If you want one, the after your last set of 5, drop the weight and immediately do a set of all out 10-12. You will get a burn. Starr recommended these "burn out", "pump" or "hypertrophy sets" in his programs. As to 5X5, see
http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/5X5.htm

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:20 am

Angus, many of us here use 5-3-1 where progress is measured in increases reps. If you can do the same weight one rep more than the previous month, you're making progress. That may be acceptable progress for a 50+ person but not for a teenager.

You could try that program or go with Madcows, WSFSB or some other weekly linear program that includes a cycle of heavy and light workouts. There are more factors to recovery than simply wait for the soreness to go. Each factor has it's own characteristics and duration. That's why you need heavy/light workouts and occasional deload weeks.

Madcow uses 5x5 ramped and although it's a 3 day/wk program, you only go heavy once/week. Check that out. The program is in the list in the stickies.

By the way, I still see no need to achieve a pump for any reason other than temporarily larger muscles. That's fine on a Friday night to impress the target.

A. moss
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Columbus, IN

Post by A. moss » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:34 pm

Okay, I think I'll finish this plan out and then try a 5, 3, 1. And I'll look those plans up. thanks guys.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:11 pm

Wendler's book is available on-line. I don't remember what it cost, but it wasn't bad, and is well worth the price. Lots of good information and advice, as well as a clear outline of the plan and of various schemes for setting up your assistance work.

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:25 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Wendler's book is available on-line. I don't remember what it cost, but it wasn't bad, and is well worth the price. Lots of good information and advice, as well as a clear outline of the plan and of various schemes for setting up your assistance work.
It's here:
http://www.flexcart.com/members/eliteft ... D&pid=2976

$19.99

Pretty cheap and it's worth it. My review:
http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/200 ... 5-3-1.html

You can find enough online to do it for free, but still, I'm glad I spent the money.

Post Reply