Huge Question

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward, jethrof

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Huge Question

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:23 pm

OkayI have a very big question, as some of you may have already found out I dont like being a bodybuilder.. rather I like getting stronger while staying near the weight I am now.. Why? Idk I guess I have a thing against gaining too much weight because psycholigically to me whatever weight that is gained is fat.. Idk why. Sometimes I think its because I used to be fat and I dont want it coming back..

Anyway here is my question that Im sure you guys have heard over 2000000 times, is it possible to weight train, do jiu jitsu, and do cardio? or does cardio reverse effects that you get in the weight room? What Im trying to say is, can you do cardio on the same day as a lifting session? Does the metabolism increase from lifting help lose more calories when you run later on in the day? Do any of you do this? Does anyone know the pros and cons?


User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:38 pm

You can do cardio and weights. Whether you gain weight or not depends on your diet. Your ability to perform well will also depend on your diet and recovery. You can certainly build relative strength and it's done all the time by all sorts of athletes. Weight training doesn't mean you have to get big. On the other hand, cardio doesn't mean you have to get small. Whatever cardio you do, make sure it's something you enjoy. If you don't like doing it, don't. It's not something you need to do a lot of.

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:41 pm

i dont understand the last part, why dont I need a lot of it :(

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:49 pm

You need to get your heart beat up once in a while, the more intense the better but you don't need a lot. Even weight training itself will accomplish that if you do the big lifts. Your heart responds to squats the same as your legs do. Read the other thread here about cardio.
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7223

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:28 pm

so squatts are cardio?


User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:33 pm

Immortal wrote:so squatts are cardio?
They get your heart beat up. I don't think anyone knows exactly how much cardio is best. All I'm saying is don't do it just because you think you need to. You need activity and you need to get your heartbeat elevated. Your heart doesn't care how you do it.

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:42 pm

wait? does this mean lifting is cardio? and how do squats compare against a 5 mile run?

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Post by stuward » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:50 pm

Try doing 6 sets of 30 with 30 seconds rest between and tell me how you make out.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... d_physique

Just throw some complexes in at the end of your weight workout and that's your cardio.

Some good ideas here too. See the article called Primal Cardio.
http://danjohn.net/pdfs/gu6.pdf
Last edited by stuward on Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:08 pm

Immortal wrote:so squatts are cardio?
They sure can be! Or not. Walking or jogging can be, or not.

"Cardio" isn't something magic. It's just what Stu said, getting your heart beating faster, and challenging your breathing capacity. We've built up such a mystique around certain activities that we have labeled "cardio" that we've lost sight of what it really is. I have done Palofs for a cardiopulmonary challenge (this tells you something about the sorry state of my GPP!)

Try this. Load up a bar with what would be very light squat weight, like 50% of your work-set weight, or 35% of a 1RM. Get the bar in position and face a clock or have someone time you. Do as many deep squats as you can in 20 seconds, then take it easy for 10 seconds. Repeat until you collapse on the floor gasping for air. Check your heart rate. You will have answered the question for yourself.

Also, just because I'm thinking about it, and need to get it off my chest, "cardio" does not equal "aerobic". They are not the same thing. It's just that for the un- to moderately-trained, you can gain cardiopulmonary challenge while still exercising in the aerobic range. You can also sustain aerobic activity much longer than anaerobic, so people who want to do lots and lots of cardio need to make it aerobic.

I feel myself shifting into rant mode. By your response to Stu, it sounds like you have succumbed to the "more is better" myth about cardio. Not necessarily so. Take, for example, three identical guys. They're triplets. Identical triplets. Their coronary arteries are identical. They are fat and inactive. They sit on the couch watching soap operas and drinking milkshakes and eating low-fat cookies all day long. Two of the brothers decide to change their evil ways, and start walking for 30 minutes, 3 days per week. OK, let's push the limits and make it an hour 4 days per week, and eventually they have to jog in order to get their heart rates up. If everything else stays the same, the 2 active guys reduce significantly their chances of having heart attacks. Now one of the 2 active guys decides that since more is always better, he will start jogging twice as much, so instead of 4 hours per week, he now jogs 8 hours per week.

Now here's what I'm getting at. What will the third brother experience? Weight loss? Maybe not, because his appetite will be greater, so unless he makes and sustains some changes in his eating, he probably won't lose any more than brother 2. Will his chances of having a heart attack go down any more? Probably not! In fact, there is some increase in his chances of having an adverse heart rhythm event.

So more isn't always better, and any activity that gets your heart and lungs to work harder is "cardio".[/rant]

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:31 pm

ok but how can you do a complex when you worked out all the other muscles of that week on different days? like it says to do lower body on the day before the complex and the xomplex requires squats so why is that>?

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by pdellorto » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:36 pm

You might want to browse the articles over at Joel Jamieson's site:

http://www.8weeksout.com/articles

They are (almost) all about conditioning, all concern MMA/BJJ/submission wrestling/fighting sports.

I know this doesn't directly answer your question, but my training is partly influenced by his methods. So you'll see me lifting weights, doing lots of MMA classes, doing intervals, doing straight-up LSD cardio...although I don't enjoy it or have much time for it so you'll see little of that. But yes, you can mix all of them quite successfully. That whole "you can't chase two rabbits" thing only applies if your goals are contradictory - for BJJ you won't need such a high 1RM as a powerlifter nor the endurance of a distance runner, but you'll need more of each quality than the other.

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:50 pm

you guys are really experienced with this stuff, how long have you guys been doing this?

and back on subject, are you guys telling me that high reps or more reps at once are better for sports?

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:13 pm

Immortal wrote:you guys are really experienced with this stuff, how long have you guys been doing this?
Remember...we are the Deific Wizards of Sagacity. We have been doing this since the dawn of time.
Immortal wrote:and back on subject, are you guys telling me that high reps or more reps at once are better for sports?
No, no, no. Nobody would make such a sweeping statement.

Peter (and don't ever call him "Pete"--he has powerful magic, and he'll zap you) said that for SOME sports ENDURANCE is more important than for other sports. If you do BJJ, you probably need some endurance as well as strength, so the amount of cardio you do, as well as your rep-set scheme should reflect that. You need some of both. You need more strength than a double-marathoner, and more endurance than a powerlifter. So you should do less "cardio" than the runner, and higher reps than the powerlifter. At least that's what I, in my deific sagacity believe him to be saying.

Immortal
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Post by Immortal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:02 pm

oooooooooooooooooooo I seeeeee, kinda like that whole red muscle, white muscle, and pink muscle thing right? where red muscle is all power or something without endurance, white muscle is all endurance with little power, but when you work both out u get pink muscle I might be wrong, white muscle could be the power one , I think its right tho haha

Nevage
Member
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 4:31 pm

Post by Nevage » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:52 pm

From yur original question, are you trying to lose weight? That's the impression I got when you asked if cardio would help burn more calories on lifting days or not. Basically, weight gain/loss = mainly diet (with exercise, for muscle gain and to facilitate fat loss). Fitness/conditioning = exercise. If you're concerned about calories being burned, concentrate on diet and you won't ever need to think in calorie terms again. I'm no a fan of calorie counting, to me it's just a unit.


Post Reply